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The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

#21
chadhargis said:
Let the Games Begin!

I love to tinker, and I'm always looking for that elusive "perfect" tone. Of course, we all know that tone needs to change to support the song and type of music you play, and one man's "perfect" is another man's "completely f'ed up beyond all recognition".

That said, I've been experimenting with DI boxes and pedals for several years. Here's what I've used so far:

  • Countryman 85 - my first ever DI back in the day. It was a simpler time back then.
  • Radial JDI - Similar to above...just a great DI. Nothing fancy.
  • Zoom B3 - Ah...so many good things in this inexpensive unit. Probably should have kept it.
  • SansAmp BDDI - I just never liked this pedal from day one. Not my bag.
  • VT Bass - See above. Didn't light my fire. No offense to Tech21 fans...just not for me.


The Current Champ - Tone Hammer
Here's what's on my board now:

  • Aguilar Tone Hammer - DI...and some added AGS for a little character. Sweet!
  • Eventide H9 - Anything you can freakin' imagine. A million pedals in one box and very, very high quality audio.
  • MXR Bass Compressor - basic, simple, effective....and the little meter shows you it's working
  • Turbo Tuner - If you are using any othter tuner, throw it in the garbage...get one of these. You'll thank me later.
  • Cioks DC5 - Isolated power that fits UNDER a Pedaltrain Mini

So, the experiment begins in a few days as the players are currently in transit. On deck to win the coveted spot currently occupied by my Tone Hammer are:

  • Two Notes Le Bass
  • Darkglass Vintage Ultra V2


I love the Tone Hammer, so why look elsewhere?
The Tone Hammer has one flaw....one damn flaw. The AGS circuit has no provision for any sort of unity gain. You get your Tone Hammer EQ set JUST right. Input and output levels are perfect. Sound man loves you. Band loves you. Now...it's time for that song in your set where you need to kick in that drive.....AND YOU'RE NOW THIS FREAKIN LOUD AND EVERYONE HATES YOU AS YOU SCRAMBLE TO TURN YOUR BASS VOLUME DOWN....WHAT??? I CAN'T HEAR YOU?? DID YOU SAY SOMETHING?

So yeah...I'm over reacting. The Tone Hammer is a great DI and a great preamp. But you really can't use it as an overdrive effect. The way I'm using it now is with the AGS circuit engaged, gain set low to give me a little "tubey" sound. And it's really wonderful. Really really wonderful. The other positives of the Tone Hammer are the fact that I'm almost 100% sure you could toss it off the Empire State Building, pick it up, plug it in, and it would work. It's a big pedal, but made of heavy metal (pardon the pun) and will run off phantom power if you wish. It's fairly basic, doesn't require a computer or mobile device to configure, and it just works. When you're on a gig, that's what you want...something that just works. In 20 years, it will still work. No software required. No USB to hook up. No Bluetooth. There is a lot to be said for that sort of dependability and predictability. I don't like surprises on a gig.

But being a tinker, and having played with the Darkglass and LeBass at Sweetwater GearFest (which was amazing...better than Summer NAMM which I'll be at this weekend), I'm intrigued with both those pedals. I also messed with the API Tranzformer. I was expecting to be really blown away by it...but I wasn't. It was nice..solid...easy to use...but didn't make me say "DAMN!".

The Contenders
The two pedals being considered have many great reviews. They are highly regarded by many, but since it's my money I'm playing with, I'm dismissing their reviews for now and I'm going to form my own opinion.

Two Notes Le Bass
The Le Bass has one thing the rest of the contenders don't have...an actual tube. And with that tube comes tube problems. The pedal is power hungry. The Cioks DC5 powering my board would have to sacrifice two high current ports to power the Le Bass. My H9 is already consuming one of those high current ports, so that will leave the H9 to run on a different power supply...two power cords. Yuck! And then there is the fact that tubes wear out and eventually need to be replaced. Not a big job...just extra work at some point. Really moot if you ask me.

The thing that intrigues me most about the Le Bass is the ability to blend the clean and dirty channels in either parallel or series mode. That, combined with a MIDI interface could make quick setting changes a breeze, and the H9 is also MIDI, so they could play very nicely together with a small MIDI controller. The possibilities are staggering. The Le Bass also has a single cab sim which can be engaged even if the clean or dirty channel aren't. From tinkering with my B3, I really love cab sims. I almost always go direct when I play, and a good cab sim will roll off some top end and give the bass a nice round sound like a good cab would.

Darkglass Vintage Ultra V2
Every single review I've seen of this pedal, or any Darkglass pedal, has been positive. In fact, one reviewer basically said "throw away all your other bass pedals you don't need them". That's an awfully bold statement. The special bit about the Vintage Ultra is the "V2" part. The V2 adds in cab simulation. But it one ups the Le Bass by letting you load in different sims. Sadly, unlike Two Notes own Torpedo C.A.B., you can't load multiple cab sims and switch on the fly via MIDI or knobs on the pedal. But the C.A.B. is a different piece of kit and not in the scope of this comparison.

Darkglass manages all this, and it runs on a standard old 9v 100ma power. Not 18v like the Tone Hammer. Not 12v like the Le Bass. So how will that effect the mystical "headroom" people always talk about when comparing 9v to higher voltages? The audio doesn't lie, so we'll soon see.

What's Next
Big shout out to my Sweetwater Rep, Joe Shafer, for hooking me up with the demo Darkglass pedal and for telling me about GearFest. Ya'll really should go. I procured the Le Bass from Reverb. Once the comparison is complete, two pedals will be for sale. Which ones to be determined.

Once I receive the pedals, I'll take time to tinker with them and get the tone out of them I like the most. Will this be the tone you like? Maybe...maybe not. I'll be recording all the sound samples using the following:

  • 2016 Fender American Standard Jazz Bass V, passive, both pickups, with Nordstrand humcanceling pickups.
  • Allen & Heath ZED-10 fed from the balanced DI out on the pedals
  • GarageBand with no effects or EQ other than the pedal itself.
  • Exported to MP3 and loaded to SoundCloud
See ya'll in a few days.
Click to expand...
Good luck with “the quest” i had some of the same issues you had with the Aguilar. I just couldn’t find one product that did everything I wanted. In the end it became a combination of things. I use a Seymour Duncan studio bass compressor which is always on into a Darkglass Alpha/Omega which i use for my drive tone. That runs into an Avalon u5 which is my favorite for my clean tone.
 
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#22
57pbass said:
Never quite understood adding a pre amp to the signal chain with a bass amp already in that signal chain ?
Click to expand...

Guess I should clarify. I RARELY use an amp or cab on a gig unless it's small venue and only vocals are run through the PA. I have a Markbass 2x10 combo and a 2x10 extension cab for those times, but they are under a heavy blanket in my basement and the cat seems to like sleeping on them.

My goal in searching for a preamp/DI is to sound like one of these guys....with only a small Pedaltrain Mini board and a DI to the board:

Gerry Rafferty - Right Down the Line


Here Come the Mummies (GREAT band!!)



James Taylor (Jimmy Johnson)


Marvin Gaye - What's Going On (James Jamerson - the GOAT)

(Isolated Track - Folks THIS is bass!)

Phil Collins - Two Hearts (Love this bass line!)


Gordon Lightfoot - If You Could Read My Mind


Alabama Shakes - Hold On


Alicia Bridges - I Love The Nightlife (one of my favorite bass lines ever!)


Orleans - Still The One
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Engelbert Humperdinck - After The Lovin' (ah...listen to that pick up at the beginning of the song...nice!)
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Bee Gees - How Deep is Your Love (ooooh man...just P bass gold here)
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Bob Seger - Against The Wind
Against the Wind - Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band

Bread - Baby I'm A Want You (wow...fabulous!)
Bread - Baby I'm A Want You - Lyrics

Boz Skaggs - Lowdown
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Steely Dan - Peg (Chuck Rainey)
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Robert John - Sad Eyes
Robert John "Sad Eyes" (1979 - #1 hit)

Suite: Judy Blue Eyes - Crosby, Stills, & Nash
Suite: Judy Blue Eyes (Remastered Version)

Dwight Yoakam - Fast As You
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Eagles - One of These Nights
The Egles One Of These Nights

England Dan & John Ford Coley - We'll Never Have to Say Goodbye
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Fleetwood Mac - Don't Stop
Fleetwood Mac - Don't Stop

Player - Baby Come Back
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Hall & Oates - One on One
Daryl Hall & John Oates - One On One

Jim Croce - I Gotta Name
I Got A Name

Commodores - Easy
Easy - The Commodores

Pablo Cruise - Whatcha Gonna Do
Pablo Cruise | Watcha Gonna Do

Staple Singers - I'll Take You There (David Hood - another master!)
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Stephen Bishop - On and On
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Van Morrison - Into The Mystic
Van Morrison - Into The Mystic

Gladys Knight & The Pips - Midnight Train to Georgia (Bob Babbitt)
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#26
I would agree with the first post about the Tone Hammer, it's a tank and its simple to dial in a warm full tone to the house if you are running in ears. The AGS, I've accepted the fact that on certain tunes I leave it on and turn down the gain to give it just a bit a grit and have to leave it on for remainder of set. If you take it off and go clean then your volume drops and vice versa. I've just accepted it as something you have pre set and forget rather than using it as a true fuzz pedal you can turn on and off during a song and that's ok with me.
 
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#27
chadhargis said:
Yeah...but for $1000 it better be good. I've got a lot of money sitting on my "6 Months No Interest" PayPal credit account that needs to get paid off when I sell what I don't keep.
Click to expand...

It was pricey but it’s a great piece of gear and I wanted tubes in my signal chain..
I sold a bunch of gear to pay for it and am very happy with this purchase..
 
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#30
I do have the need for some overdrive in many songs I play, but I want the ability to turn it on and off. My H9 can do about anything, but it's only one effect at a time and "tube drive" is not one of the things it excels at. At least not that I've been able to discover. Granted, I have a LOT to learn about the H9. It's unbelievable.

I have ordered another piece of kit to play with and see if it might fix the issue I have with the Tone Hammer. Found a good price on a used AGRO pedal. I'll run the Tone Hammer clean then engage the AGRO and see what it sounds like. This would also allow me to entertain options like the Noble that don't have any sort of overdrive ability. But that's a different subject all together. This comparison will stick with preamp/DI boxes with overdrive functions so I can compare apples to apples.
 
#32
Just the thread I needed ...
I used the be with the T21 BDDI until I discovered Darkglass , had the US made version , moved to a Finland made version twice and now I’m with the B7k Ultra ...

Waiting to hear some more demos and decide if I’m going to the Ultra V2 , or the LeBass ... maybe vintage Ultra V2 , it’s the first time I ever hear about that Olympic and it looks interesting ...

Waiting to see how this thread develops
 
#33
Life of Brian said:
I would agree with the first post about the Tone Hammer, it's a tank and its simple to dial in a warm full tone to the house if you are running in ears. The AGS, I've accepted the fact that on certain tunes I leave it on and turn down the gain to give it just a bit a grit and have to leave it on for remainder of set. If you take it off and go clean then your volume drops and vice versa. I've just accepted it as something you have pre set and forget rather than using it as a true fuzz pedal you can turn on and off during a song and that's ok with me.
Click to expand...

Ima going to give that AGS another chance.
 
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#34
Glad I've got some subscribers. Since I'm self funding this adventure (buying used or demos to cut down on money loss), I'm not able to include all the options mentioned or that I'd like to include. If any Nashville peeps want to loan me a preamp/DI with a gain circuit, I'll gladly include it. I know you can't swing a dead cat in this town without hitting a musician, so maybe someone will let me borrow some kit. I'm not a fan of going begging at music stores to borrow gear, so I've not gone down that road even though I know some folks who'd gladly loan me some gear if I asked. Just don't want to take advantage of friendships like that.

I'm focusing not only on sound, but durability, practicality, and reliability. I almost never use an amp or cab, and my DI needs to be solid and able to take a pounding. I also know power outlets can be scarce on gigs, so I'd like for everything to run off my Cioks DC5 power supply. Already I know the Le Bass won't allow me to run my full board as both it and my H9 need high current. Here's an email from Cioks:

Hi Chad,

Yes, Le Bass should be run from output 4 and 5 set to 12V using Parallel Adapter Flex + Flex 1 (the black one).

I am afraid that DC5 will not be able to power H9, since outputs 4 and 5 will be used to power Le Bass. H9 draws 300mA when powered 12V so there is not enough power since you have Le Bass.

Parallel Adapter is not included to DC5.

Best Regards,

Luke Duda
Technical Support
​
This is strike one against the Le Bass before I've even opened the box. But if it sounds like the voices of angels and is head and shoulders above the rest, I'll rig up and extension cord under the board and do my best to locate the wall wart of the H9 out of the way. I use a very small board and I do that on purpose. 1) Because it's light and easy to transport, 2) Because if I didn't I'd have $5000 worth of pedals I seldom use. The limited real estate limits what I have space for, hence the H9 multi effects unit. It can do just about anything.

Mini Tuner --> Compressor --> H9 --> Mini Volume Pedal --> Preamp (currently Tone Hammer). The power supply sits underneath. It's a compact, but powerful set up.
​
 
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#35
rockinrayduke said:
Ima going to give that AGS another chance.
Click to expand...
My favorite setting isn't necessarily massive saturation but with the gain at 10 and the mid "level" at half way I can get that "tube" ish sound when really digging in but it gets clean with a lighter touch. I kind of simulate a Geddy Lee gritty tone with it at most. I think this is where the AGS is truly useful. I think people think this pedal is a dual preamp/ Overdrive pedal. To be honest I think Aguilar could do a little more to elaborate on this circuit. I tell everyone to snag a true fuzz or saturation pedal that you can engage when needed and control it's level when engaging so you don't get all of a sudden louder.
 
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#36
Life of Brian said:
To be honest I think Aguilar could do a little more to elaborate on this circuit. I tell everyone to snag a true fuzz or saturation pedal that you can engage when needed and control it's level when engaging so you don't get all of a sudden louder.
Click to expand...

You're 100% correct, which is why I picked up a used AGRO pedal to try just that. I have done the AGS at low gain thing, and I honestly didn't like the tone. Seemed like the low end got weak. Even if you increase it, something was off. I turned the AGS back off and bumped the volume back up and that big round clean tone was back. It's just an OBP-3 with sweepable mids running at 18v. That's all the Tone Hammer is. And it's really damn good. And there is a strong chance that it keeps its spot on my board with the addition of the AGRO for overdrive. The Le Bass and Vintage Ultra have to show they can knock that combo off.

The ace in the hole of the contenders is their cabinet sims. If they work as advertised, the Tone Hammer may end up in the classifieds. But then again, the simplicity and ruggedness of the Tone Hammer is a feather in its cap.
 
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#37
FWIW I have been using the Darkglass Alpha Omega Ultra. I don't usually use high levels of drive, just enough to get a "growl". The XLR w/cab sim going to FOH has been a revelation and my tone has improved tremendously. Rather than using one stock included IRs, I went to Rosen and bought their IRs for a GK 410 and a Mesa Powerhouse. The Powerhouse IR is where the magic happened for me. The best sound I've obtained to date is using the XLR out with the cab sim to FOH and using the 1/4" out to my GK1001RBII for stage fill and a little extra "boost" to the room. Sounded glorious.
 
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#38
Rickter said:
Rather than using one stock included IRs, I went to Rosen and bought their IRs for a GK 410 and a Mesa Powerhouse. The Powerhouse IR is where the magic happened for me. .
Click to expand...

I am looking forward to playing with cab sims. The Le Bass just has one (on or off) but the Darkglass software lets you yous IR files, and there are MANY of them out there.
 
#39
chadhargis said:
You're 100% correct, which is why I picked up a used AGRO pedal to try just that. I have done the AGS at low gain thing, and I honestly didn't like the tone. Seemed like the low end got weak. Even if you increase it, something was off. I turned the AGS back off and bumped the volume back up and that big round clean tone was back. It's just an OBP-3 with sweepable mids running at 18v. That's all the Tone Hammer is. And it's really damn good. And there is a strong chance that it keeps its spot on my board with the addition of the AGRO for overdrive. The Le Bass and Vintage Ultra have to show they can knock that combo off.

The ace in the hole of the contenders is their cabinet sims. If they work as advertised, the Tone Hammer may end up in the classifieds. But then again, the simplicity and ruggedness of the Tone Hammer is a feather in its cap.
Click to expand...
Yes to everything you just said I totally agree. I may try the Fuzzistor pedal instead of the Agro though ')
 
#40
chadhargis said:
I am looking forward to playing with cab sims. The Le Bass just has one (on or off) but the Darkglass software lets you yous IR files, and there are MANY of them out there.
Click to expand...
One Di/Preamp pedal I would like to have dual with the Tone Hammer and maybe your participants would be the Sadowsky. Plus you can get just the Pre amp portion without the DI part for 100 dollars less and.......that pre amp only one runs on a 9 vold. Just sayin.... I would love to do a blind test with that and the Tone Hammer. I'm so happy with the TH though it would have to make me cry unicorn tears for it to make me change though.
 

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