The Great Metronome Debate

[StatesideRambler]

There are arguments on both sides. Whether they're convincing is shown in the aftermath.

Have you ever recorded your practice then listened to it? You'd probably hear that the things you do well are played at one tempo and the things that need work have a slower tempo. If you aren't aware of it the metronome exposes it. Practice/record minus metronome then fire up the metronome during playback for comparison.

Now, playing in ensemble there'll be tempo variations that are appropriate to the tune as your band has arranged it. Metronomes don't do rubato sections at all well nor do they get along with fermatas. As with any tool there are times when it's right and times when it's wrong. Many teachers consider it a "must use" while some others subscribe to JB's "absolutely not" so pick your guru.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

There is no convincing argument. There is only opinion, often put forth by those so convinced of their own awesomeness that they cannot imagine that one size does not fit all when it comes to learning.

You are absolutely correct.
If you are not recording for me, if you are not playing with me, if I have no relationship with your music, or your band - we don’t need to talk about the metronome. Leave it for those arrogant people.
P.S. I seriously dislike those “one size fits all” clothes - they always too tight for me.

 

[SLO Surfer]

My band leader handed out a chart last week that said “82bpm” at the top. I started snapping what I thought was 82bpm and asked the drummer how close I was. He tapped my snaps into his metronome and said I was at 81 bpm. I’ve spent over 20 years playing with a metronome and don’t regret it or know what someone could have against it.

 

[IamGroot]

N.B. I use the metronome any time I can. I have been doing it for decades!
And I can not find any (!) detrimental effects to my musicianship!
Zero!

Now.
I can only (!) see this thread started by a knowledgeable musician as a troll to purposely incite “empty emotional battles” going nowhere (!), changing Nothing (!), providing Zero musical values!
Therefore, I can only reply with sarcasm/sarcastic humor! Only!

Nothing personal, just humor!

If you are a playing musician and have that kind of question about the metronome, if you need some “celestial” proof about the use of the metronome, here is my answer.
Don’t you ever touch the metronome!
It’s baaaad! Forget about it.
If you are playing in some school band with all those proudly exposed sheets of notes, or in any other similar (it could be unionized) band environment with all those regular asynchronous and asymmetrical ebbs and flows of other musicians - you don’t need any metronome ever.
If you are a good gigging musician who only (still) plays in a “ebb and then flow” band - you don’t need a metronome.
Just don’t touch or think about it!
Also, I have noticed a rebellious offspring from the great bass player’s - J B’s anti-metronome ideology.
“Using the metronome is good when you are a beginner, and only later you should stop using it.”
I would like to facilitate that rebellious confusion - “make” some synthesis between JB’s , “At the beginning - don’t even think about the metronome” and “Use the metronome only at the beginning” by diplomatically suggesting the following,
Just don’t bother with that metronome at all, just play and enjoy.
Also, when you are a gigging musician - you don’t need to exercise any more.
Just play and enjoy.
Now I conclude my comic relief post.

I am the OP. I wasn't trolling. I was looking for somebody to explain the argument against metronomes. No emotion intended here, just information.

I see lots of folks posted on why we need metronomes - That wasn't asked for.
I see several people mentioned a bassist or his initials. I request you don't do this.
I see a few people said they didn't like metronomes, but gave no substantative opinion why other than personal preference.

So I will rephrase my question.

Do you know of any reason why using metronomes would lessen your musicianship?

 

[Altitude]

For me there is no better way to get my fingers around challenging parts than to play them slowly using a metronome, then gradually increase the speed until I'm playing them a little faster than the recording. Think "Sir Duke".

I've never understood the basis of Jeff Berlin's opposition to using them, unless maybe it's the "crutch" argument.

 

[Altitude]

For a laugh - join a band right at the point where they decide that everyone will use a click track live, to support lighting routines or backup vocals or something.

This is awful for the drummer, who is accustomed to dictating tempo.

Your drummer might already have perfect tempo, but the other 99.9% of guys are going to be totally pissed off and insecure at first, when the click track shows everyone, incontrovertibly, that he's dragging every bridge.

Not hypothectical.

 

[AztecViking]

I've got one of these but mainly use it when either choreographing for or learning new tap dance pieces. It's super cool because you can adjust it to accent any portion of a beat or measure that you wish. Marketed at drummers.

Not that I would ever actually tap dance. But there are indeed LOTS of crappy tap dancers out there who could massively benefit their rhythmic accuracy by occasionally using one. Especially when working on new and challenging material which has not yet been committed to muscle memory. So many newer tappers want to wow you with their speed and flash and when you say "Ok, now repeat and hold that same sequence rock steady at half that tempo" and when they try they'll literally fall to pieces rhythmically. If they practiced the same material at a slow tempo with a metronome or any other kind of steady pulse for just a little that annoying phenomenon in rookie tappers would essentially disappear.

As a bass player I do something similar with learning a difficult passage only I slice out the challenging section with an audio editing program, slow down the tempo and play along with it looped. I can't recall the last time I actually used the metronome while practicing bass.

 

[SteveCS]

...when the click track shows everyone, incontrovertibly, that he's dragging every bridge.
...

Of course the corollary is that the click is rushing every bridge...
Try setting a constant tempo click/drum sequencer to Erma Franklin's version of Piece of my Heart...

 

[bfields]

Most musicians find it useful to be able to play to a metronome (or click track, or conductor...), and to be able to speed up or slow down when called for. There are plenty of examples of people who can do both well. I don't know where people get the idea that learning one skill prevents learning the other.

 

[sigterm]

If you haven't been listening to music your entire life, a metronome is probably handy.

 

[Bass'd on a true story]

People who don't practice with metronomes are generally a nightmare to play and record with. I worked in a studio for awhile and I still help people record now and then. No. You don't have "naturally good rhythm". The number of times I've heard that line... You just haven't been in situations that are unforgiving enough rhythmically for your offbeat self to notice. That is all.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Do you know of any reason why using metronomes would lessen your musicianship?

I think I have said it before.
I can’t find any (!) reason that the use of the metronome somehow, somewhat, someway, somewhere lessened my musicianship!
I have only benefited from that simple innocuous tool!
Please, don’t tell anybody about my secret.

P.S. I am not going to sacrifice my life for the metronome.

 

[StatesideRambler]

The lightning rod in this debate is Jeff Berlin. His POV is here:
I don't know and I don't want to know why people got up in arms over it. When you listen beyond his [far too many] words to get to the musical ideas, what he's saying without actually saying it is, "Practice slowly to play fast."

 

[pigpen1]

I think metronomes help beginners with steady time. Once you are a novice, they are most helpful for learning fast passages slowly and increasing the tempo.

But the reason I don’t think they help live gigging musicians, is because tempo is an ebb and flow between musicians. And something every ensemble player learns playing with others.

By the time you are an expert, if you can’t keep a steady internal rhythm, then you’re no expert.

Except for the guys with click tracks in their ears and sometimes even vocal prompts "vocals in 1,2,3,4..."

 

[IamGroot]

The lightning rod in this debate is Jeff Berlin. His POV is here:
I don't know and I don't want to know why people got up in arms over it. When you listen beyond his [far too many] words to get to the musical ideas, what he's saying without actually saying it is, "Practice slowly to play fast."

EDIT: Yes, but what does "Play slow to play fast" have to do with not using metronomes? PS - That was the video I did not "get"

 

[Bass'd on a true story]

Jeff Berlin sounds like he just got insulted by an audio engineer and had to get pedantic on him to feel better. This video reeks of "I'm not wrong, you're wrong".

 

[Altitude]

Of course the corollary is that the click is rushing every bridge...
Try setting a constant tempo click/drum sequencer to Erma Franklin's version of Piece of my Heart...

Or "Consoler of the Lonely" by the Raconteurs.

Sure, there are exceptions - I'd argue that a dance band probably doesn't want to vary tempo too much in the middle of a song unless they are doing it very much on purpose.

 

[Loring]

I agree that metronomes for recording/performing sterilize the music. There are parts of songs that require the anxiety of changing tempo.

Play slow to play fast can be done with or without a metronome. With a metronome very slowly really cleans up your technique. Without - you will play the parts you're capable of faster and slow down for the hard bits.

 

[micguy]

People who don't practice with metronomes are generally a nightmare to play and record with. I worked in a studio for awhile and I still help people record now and then. No. You don't have "naturally good rhythm". The number of times I've heard that line... You just haven't been in situations that are unforgiving enough rhythmically for your offbeat self to notice. That is all.

There are folks with naturally good rhythm. My sister and I are a couple of those. My Mom (who used to play piano and slow down at the hard parts) didn't. Drove my sister and I bananas.

I play in churches where we often have a click. A couple of weeks ago, the click (and tracks) "failed" during rehearsal at the beginning of a tune. Didn't phase the drummer or me - we kept going, and let the tech folks figure out what happened. 3 or 4 minutes later, someone discovered why the click had "failed" - it was still going, just not in our ears. The click "came back" - it was in our ears again, and were were (after several minutes of playing with no click) dead on the exact beat - finished up the song without a hitch. Yes, some of us do have naturally good rhythm. Yes, there are a lot of folks that don't have naturally good rhythm (I've played with drummers that couldn't follow a click), but some of us really do have good rhythm.

 

[JW56789]

I was a piano student from kindergarten thru high school. I imagine in total I've spent a year or two of my life collectively playing to a metronome. As a result I have a virtual 'clock' second to no one. I've had gigs where I felt like I was pulling like hell to keep the band on time, or a continuously slowing down drummer once made me crazy.

For a solo instrument performance, I think it's far more useful than in an ensemble situation. Anyone who's played a lot knows that time 'breathes', if you will. At the end of the tune, we're all at the same starting tempo, but the music can surge a hair forward or dufus ever so slightly in spots within the prescribed tempo in a good band with experienced players. It's this very slight variation that makes drumbox or quantized recordings sound so very square.

So I look at metronomes like training wheels: Once you can balance and ride, the skill is now innate. After that, they're handy to find the tempo that feels right, and then if necessary, the drummer can always quietly dial it up to count off and play the tune at the registered tempo. TAMA and Yamaha both make devices for that.