The Great Metronome Debate

[bluefizz]

The use of a metronome is not something that should be looked down on. I use one all the time. If you know how to use it effectively its a great tool.
Say for double bass, long bows with a metronome really make you think about time, tone, etc. I could easily play whole notes with out a metronome, but I use it to force myself to slow down and really focus.
Electric bass I use it when running scales and other exercises. Again, I could play them without it, but I use it to really focus. No matter how experienced someone is a metronome is always useful. I'm good friends with Putter Smith (looking him up if you dont know who he is) and when I go to his place, he always has a Doctor beat metronome on the music stand. Doesnt matter how long you've been playing, if you use it as a tool, it helps you tremendously.

And yes, a click track is a metronome. Its funny how many people Ive been in a studio with that never practice with a metronome and when it comes time use a click track there all over the place and always complain that it doesn't "feel" right. No, you just cant play in time and are used to rushing and slowing down with adrenaline or easy/difficult parts.

But honestly, who cares if someone uses a metronome or not. To each his/her own.

 

[inanimate_carb]

A metronome should be an old familiar friend, but not a god.

 

[IamGroot]

I'll just put this here.

View attachment 3016651

Thank you for that cartoon. Correlation implies possible causation. Society and TBers in particular would benefit to understand how correlation work in real life. In pure sciences. R>0.98 is pretty convincing, but with people and such R>0.8 would be fantastic.

 

[IamGroot]

In simple terms, tempo is how fast or slow a piece of music is performed, while rhythm is the placement of sounds in time, in a regular and repeated pattern.Tempo generally is measured as the number of beats per minute, where the beat is the basic measure of time in music.

Timing in music refers to the ability to "keep time" accurately and to synchronise to an ensemble, as well as to expressive timing—subtle adjustment of note or beat duration, or of tempo, for aesthetic effect.

 

[lfmn16]

But honestly, who cares if someone uses a metronome or not. To each his/her own.

I think it's some macho thing, "Look at me, I'm so good I don't need a metronome and never have." Frankly, if someone says they NEVER used a metronome, I don't believe them. Really, never in your entire life have you ever used a metronome? OK Hoss, whatever you say.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Thank you for that cartoon. Correlation implies possible causation. Society and TBers in particular would benefit to understand how correlation work in real life. In pure sciences. R>0.98 is pretty convincing, but with people and such R>0.8 would be fantastic.

Absolutely. The issue here is all the different "I use it all the time and it helps" when nobody knows what would have happened if they practiced with the same diligence without a metronome (or any other variant). If it helps you to focus, fine. But then it's really not about the metronome but about focusing.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

First off, this thread is not about bashing any bass players.

I am just trying to understand a reasoning why metronomes dont help players learn good time. I have read the arguments.and watched the videos against metronomes, but I don't get it. If someone can summarize that argument convincingly, I would like to hear it.

Btw, I use the metronome pretty much daily, especially when learning tricky pieces. I am a big believer in the gnome.

Put on any CD or album you own, set the metronome to the time of the music in the first couple measures and see how that goes.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Absolutely. The issue here is all the different "I use it all the time and it helps" when nobody knows what would have happened if they practiced with the same diligence without a metronome (or any other variant). If it helps you to focus, fine. But then it's really not about the metronome but about focusing.

No!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Put on any CD or album you own, set the metronome to the time of the music in the first couple measures and see how that goes.

I am doing it quite often but by using modern tools/apps on my iPhone like liveBPM, and?

 

[Altitude]

Put on any CD or album you own, set the metronome to the time of the music in the first couple measures and see how that goes.

Can I use "Welcome to the Pleasuredome?" I think that album is about 99.999% technically correct.

 

[SteveCS]

I would just like to take a moment to mention that there is no difference between a metronome and a click track.

That depends on the programmer...

 

[gorneyg]

You either have it...or you don't. Various tools will help...with the key being "help".

 

[StatesideRambler]

EDIT: Yes, but what does "Play slow to play fast" have to do with not using metronomes? PS - That was the video I did not "get"

Play slow to play fast can be done with or without a metronome. With a metronome very slowly really cleans up your technique. Without - you will play the parts you're capable of faster and slow down for the hard bits.

Recheck my post. My statement is "Practice slowly to play fast." The point of it is that in practicing slowly you make relatively slow movements, teaching your muscles how to go cleanly and accurately from one place to the next. After you have a handle on that, "muscle memory," you can constructively work on speed. You've all heard or played with people who try to play fast but couldn't hit notes if you painted bullseyes on 'em. The use or non-use of a metronome won't affect your fingers hitting the right notes with the right articulation, dynamics and preparation for moving to the next note. Neither will the use or non-use of a metronome make a difference in learning to groove (feel) when you're playing, which I'm sure you'll agree is paramount as a performing or recording bassist. Playing fast and playing good aren't mutually exclusive but taken together they're fairly uncommon outside the A-list players.

Far more important than the decision to use a metronome or to avoid it is that you do what you need to do to improve your playing.

 

[Ellery]

First off, this thread is not about bashing any bass players.

I am just trying to understand a reasoning why metronomes dont help players learn good time. I have read the arguments.and watched the videos against metronomes, but I don't get it. If someone can summarize that argument convincingly, I would like to hear it.

Btw, I use the metronome pretty much daily, especially when learning tricky pieces. I am a big believer in the gnome.

All I know is it helped me, and continues to help me to this day. If I neglect to use one when working on a new technique it takes me longer.

 

[sawzalot]

Metronomes are incredibly useful for developing an internal "pulse" independent of other musicians. Paradoxically, it's critical to have that independent pulse in order to play genres where there isn't a solid kick/snare keeping time for you, or genres where time gets turned around and it's easy to lose track of "1" if your own sense of the "pulse" isn't solid.

The way I use one is to start at a comfortable tempo and then to SLOW it down, until I'm playing one note, exactly on the click, at like 20 bpm or slower. Then fool around with playing behind the beat, in front of the beat, and exactly on the beat. It takes a lot of concentration, ability to subdivide, and discipline.

They're useful for speed training too, but developing the internal pulse is more important IMHO because 99% of your playing utilizes that skill.

Tom

 

[Deleted member 165050]

First off, this thread is not about bashing any bass players.

I am just trying to understand a reasoning why metronomes dont help players learn good time. I have read the arguments.and watched the videos against metronomes, but I don't get it. If someone can summarize that argument convincingly, I would like to hear it.

Btw, I use the metronome pretty much daily, especially when learning tricky pieces. I am a big believer in the gnome.

Metronomes DO help players learn good time. As I have learnt both through classical cello lessons, and by using electronic metronomes as rehearsal click tracks when there’s no drummer.

 

[bfields]

I just know way too many musicians who never practice with a metronome (and never did) who do just fine with a click in the studio. That's my experience here in Nashville.

They probably played with other people from early on, or played with recordings, or drum machines, or something. Keeping a steady tempo, and syncing to somebody else's tempo, are skills you can practice in more than one way. Metronomes are cheap and easy to find and always available, so they're what a lot of teachers are going to recommend.

 

[Lownote38]

They probably played with other people from early on, or played with recordings, or drum machines, or something. Keeping a steady tempo, and syncing to somebody else's tempo, are skills you can practice in more than one way. Metronomes are cheap and easy to find and always available, so they're what a lot of teachers are going to recommend.

Well, not any teacher I had. It was an option, yes, but it was never forced on me. There was never a point where a metronome was recommended to me for improving my time. Keep in mind that I'm not against them. I just prefer not to use them.
I've always preferred to play with a real drummer, and recordings. Old recordings that were made without a click track.
You're right about playing with other people early on. I highly recommend doing that. From day one, I was playing with a drummer and guitar player. It wasn't mathematically perfect, like a metronome, but I tend to like music that isn't set to a click. It's more human to me. Castles Made of Sand by Hendrix wouldn't be right if it didn't speed up significantly throughout the song.

 

[Loring]

Recheck my post. My statement is "Practice slowly to play fast." The point of it is that in practicing slowly you make relatively slow movements, teaching your muscles how to go cleanly and accurately from one place to the next. After you have a handle on that, "muscle memory," you can constructively work on speed. You've all heard or played with people who try to play fast but couldn't hit notes if you painted bullseyes on 'em. The use or non-use of a metronome won't affect your fingers hitting the right notes with the right articulation, dynamics and preparation for moving to the next note. Neither will the use or non-use of a metronome make a difference in learning to groove (feel) when you're playing, which I'm sure you'll agree is paramount as a performing or recording bassist. Playing fast and playing good aren't mutually exclusive but taken together they're fairly uncommon outside the A-list players.

Far more important than the decision to use a metronome or to avoid it is that you do what you need to do to improve your playing.

I agree practise slowly - I don't see why I would need to recheck your post. I completely understand what you are saying. A metronome or in my case a drum machine forces you to play all parts slowly - not just the bits you find awkward. And it'll force you to play much slower than you would on your own. We all have a tendency to want to play it at song speed. Very few of us can stop that urge to speed up over the course of a couple of hours.

It also helps us to see progress - can't play a part at 120bbm but can play it at 80... slowly increasing speed incrementally shows progress and helps to stay on track.

So yes using a metronome for practise helps most people. It helps stay on track, in focus and gives motivation with positive feedback.

And to reiterate the part of my post left out... I don't agree with clicks or metronomes for performance/recording. It makes the music too sterile.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

So yes using a metronome for practise helps most people. It helps stay on track, in focus and gives motivation with positive feedback.

I think it's safe to say metronome can help a lot of people to keep focus and give some kind of motivation. But, that hasn't got much to do with "developing sense of time" etc., which is the main argument from those who argue for using a metronome in the first place.