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The Hossenfeffer Bass Build

#521
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Here's one about mixing black for the burst.

I saved a bunch of these when I was getting ready to use my spray gun for the first time.

Also, for spraying, I just have plastic on my bench and against the wall on a frame. There's a cutout in the plastic and a box fan with a filter on it blowing air out the garage window. Hang the bodies to cure in the basement with no smell at all. That's with Parks and Behr black as a pigment.
 
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#526
Thanks to the Photobucket Clusterf**ck many TB'ers are currently experiencing, wherein the price for third-party photo hosting when from $0 to $400/year overnight (would that be a 400% increase?), I'll have to re-populate the thread with photos. Apologies to anyone still looking at this, hope to have some new progress photos up soon now that I've mastered my new spraygun, stay tuned!

Edit:
Weirdly, some of the photos have become re-visible by themselves, some not. I have no idea what Photobucket is up to, I'll replace any missing images using IMGUR, luckily all saved on my hard drive as well.
 
#527
I have a parallel thread going on the Water Based finish thread here:
Using water based products for instrument finishing, Target Coatings 9000 6000 and Varathane WB

After a good bit of agonizing and procrastination, I bought one of these HVLP turbine sprayers from HF, Id say the jury is still out on how effective it is for guitar finishes. At this point I'm guardedly optimistic.
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It has only one adjustment, paint volume. The air supply is constant and non-adjustable, it starts blowing when you turn it on, and pulling the trigger releases paint.

I built a ridiculously over-engineered "temporary" spray booth using 1x3 and plastic sheeting, with a zipper entry and HVAC filters each side, one for air flow in, one for out, using a standard 21" box fan:
wyBB4S9.jpg


Here's the Victim swinging on a hardware store swiveling paint bucket hook:
aYgGeBY.jpg


Because I'm clueless with spraying anything other than rattlecans, I practiced tinting Varathane with Behr Premium plus black per Bruce Johnson's "recipe" in the WB thread, it works, but takes a boatload o' coats to cover bare wood. This photo is after 10 coats. The table top was pretty beat up, and I had no need or intention to get it perfectly smooth, even so the best finish I could achieve with this gun and this material is a medium orangepeel. It should be possible to level sand this on the guitar itself.
F1yotaL.jpg

wh0jBJC.jpg


I made a half-body mockup from poplar I had kicking around, bound and sanded to 220 grit.
L85Eu6F.jpg

Ill be spraying (5) coats of clear Varathane over that as a sealer coat, level sand, then 5 more coats, etc until its perfectly smooth, then what will probably be 10-15 coats of black tinted Varathane to cover the maple. I'll complete the whole process, including level sanding, buff-out, etc on the mockup. Tedious! Hopefully I can make all my mistakes on the mockup and do something presentable on the actual guitar. Thanks for checking out my Zombie Thread.
 
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#530
You might want to consider the epoxy sealing method described in the WB mega-thread as well. One thing about that WB stuff is that it really soaks into the wood and eventually you'll see the texture of the grain through the finish. I painted my stepson's Masonite and ply guitar, and you can totally see the ply texture on the sides! I should have sealed it with epoxy.

The West stuff is really expensive, another guy was using some made by Zap-a-Gap that seemed to do OK.
 
#532
I've been keeping track of your journey towards a Jetglo black! Was wondering if you are going to try the TransTint colors (I know someone had mentioned that as an option to the Behr color)? Seems like no one has mentioned that the TransTint can be sprayed right out of the gun with alcohol or water. I use it that way then clear coat over. You could get a great black foundation, then spray the tinted black over that to sweeten the deal. I know you were having issues with getting a solid black with the Behr tinted WB product... this would ensure that you were already there with a solid black. Wouldn't recommend doing this over an epoxy sealed surface though, but I really don't think maple needs to be sealed like that (just my opinion).

Either way I'm excited to see the outcome. Good luck!
 
#533
I have to second Nomad98; TransTint is the only woodworking dye that I will use anymore. I have ebonized wood with the black over the years on many different woods and it looks great. You can also wipe it on/off, but you have that nice HVLP unit now!
 
#534
Oh, and I generally use water, but that's mostly because I never seem to have alcohol handy (I can't stand denatured fumes, so I only use 190 proof Everclear). Fun fact: you can't buy 200 proof alcohol because the second it's exposed to the humidity in the air it starts soaking up 5% water. So, 190 it is. I don't know where you live, however, and 190 Everclear is illegal in many states, because it's much better to be poisoned by denatured stuff then it is to drink too high a proof alcohol (although I agree, don't drink it unless you're an alcoholic in denial).
 
#535
Freekmagnet said:
You might want to consider the epoxy sealing method described in the WB mega-thread as well. One thing about that WB stuff is that it really soaks into the wood and eventually you'll see the texture of the grain through the finish. I painted my stepson's Masonite and ply guitar, and you can totally see the ply texture on the sides! I should have sealed it with epoxy.

The West stuff is really expensive, another guy was using some made by Zap-a-Gap that seemed to do OK.
Click to expand...

As luck would have it, I have the big pump metered containers of West System already for use on boat repairs and whatnot. My hardener is getting old, but the resin lasts forever. I've been mulling this over, and I think you are right that sealing with epoxy is the safer route. I burned through an entire quart of the Varathane on my tabletop experiment, I'm guessing the first five coats were largely absorbed into the wood. Thanks for pushing me over the edge on that one!

I'm torn on the black tint. I was pretty disappointed at how many coats it took me to get to jet black. @Bruce Johnson was doing it in 5 coats or so with 1 tbsp black paint to 3 oz. Varathane, but it took me 10 coats to get to around 95% opaque, which was good enough for me on the table, but seems too thick for a guitar. I guess I have nothing to lose by trying Transtint. The difference between Bruce's experience and mine could be the gun itself, or my technique. I'm using the finest needle, 1.0mm, I thought the bigger ones (1.5mm or 2.0mm) would lay down too much paint, but haven't tried them. I'm spraying a fine mist at 6" from the surface, just thick enough that I start to see some bluish tint in the Varathane. I'm very careful to keep the gun parallel to the surface and move at a consistent speed. Any heavier and it starts to run, but I don't see a lot of self-leveling going on, even with Floetrol added. It does flatten out some, but dries to the orangepeel you see. That translates into more elbow grease to level, but that's also more opportunities to sand through the clearcoat and ruin it. Any suggestions as to other methods that might result in a smoother initial finish with this turbine gun appreciated! I've read a lot of articles and watched a lot of Youtube videos on spraying technique, but they all apply to solvent based finishes, not WB, which seems to be a very different animal.

I've used Transtint on furniture projects before, but never over plastic binding. Does anyone know if the Transtint will stain plastic? After all the work of the Checker binding, I'd really rather not inadvertently trash it! I guess I can see what it does on the 1/2 body mockup, but if anybody knows....
 
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#539
First reply, from a chap named Rolo. I'm sure that more will follow:

One thing it sounds like the person has a bleeder type spray gun that flows constant air. Below is a comparison of bleeder vs non-bleeder spray gun.
What is a bleeder spray gun
A bleeder spray gun has air that is continuously flowing from the air cap of the spray gun. Even when you release the spray gun trigger you will still have air flowing through the spray gun air cap. A bleeder spray gun is actually the original style of HVLP Spray gun used with turbine driven HVLP spray guns.

What is a Non – Bleeder Spray Gun
A non-bleeder spray gun will have the option to use just air or air and fluid together ( to achieve a spray pattern). When the trigger is released fluid stops flowing and then air. Unlike a bleeder style spray gun that will continually have air flowing from the air cap as long as the gun is connected to shop air.

Bleeder Spray Gun Pros
  • Instant atomization of any fluid that is released into the air stream as the air is continuously flowing
  • Instant atomization of all material can be a plus in certain applications
  • Reduce issues with air caps plugging – By having air constantly moving through the air cap a bleeder style spray gun is less likely to become clogged at the air cap
Bleeder Gun Cons
  • Can cause solvent to flash rapidly which can be problematic if you need additional time to apply a coating
  • Can have slightly greater limitations on air control – By not allowing for air and then fluid to flow you will often times have less fine control of the air from your spray gun with a bleeder spray gun.
Non Bleeder Spray Gun Pros
  • Control of release of fluid and air
  • Control over air being released which can be helpful if flashing off solvents prematurely is problematic
Non Bleeder Spray Gun Cons
  • Air cap doesn’t have air continuously moving which can help potentially keep any paint from building up
Conclusion
The choice of bleeder vs non bleeder spray guns will ultimately be one of personal preference. Both styles have their benefits and drawbacks depending on your application. The non-bleeder style guns are more common today but there are still bleeder style spray guns in use
 
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#540
One more option: put some Transtint black into your epoxy.

It is alcohol soluble and you can thin epoxy with alcohol. I have tried it.

Based on other TB build threads I used Zpoxy for my first ever filler application. It sets up in about 2 hours and is thinner than West System epoxy. Sands off fine.
 

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