I had pretty good results using a color coat of oil-based Rustolium spray paint, which I let fully cure a few days, clear coated with the water-based spray Varathane. You may want to seal the wood before painting. I used the West Systems Epoxy.
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The Hossenfeffer Bass Build
- Thread starter Gilmourisgod
- Start date
I know Bruce says to scrape off the excess epoxy, but I just apply it with a clean cotton rag, try to spread it evenly, and let it cure. Then sand it smooth with a sanding block.
*edit - I never used this method on an instrument with binding. I'm not sure how that's going to effect the process.
Or, you might try putting down 5 - 10 coats of the Varathane water-based clear as a sealer. I'm a little concerned about the thickness of the paint coats, and having to scrape it all off on the binding.
edit - maybe just a few coats of clear as a sealer? Binding is hard!
edit - maybe just a few coats of clear as a sealer? Binding is hard!
With ABS binding If you can keep any color that's acetone-based off the binding, it will be much easier to scrape. I've done both scraping and masking; I prefer masking where possible. I think that with the purfling+binding you have, you might be able to mask on the top with 3M pinstriping tape which has a fair amount of lateral flexibility
Jon,
What types of paint are acetone based? I hadn't thought of that either, but acetone does a wonderful job of dissolving ABS and celluloid, so I can see why that might be a problem! I'm going to make a mockup body wing out of scrap poplar and bind it for experimental purposes. I've never had much luck masking things, but haven't tried the 3M tape. If that works I'll be happy, the scraping looks like a high skill process. Science!
Maple,
I like the idea of clearcoat as a sealer, but I wonder if that's asking for trouble by overcoating with oil based color, then WB again? Another call to Rustoleum tech support. Another experiment I had in mind was getting a quart of the Varathane floor finish and tinting it with tints-all, which is supposed to be mixable with WB, and trying it through a Preval. I can't remember discussion about that one way or the other on the WB thread. If that worked, I could use Varathane for sealer, color, and clearcoat which would be ideal. I once poisoned myself with spray paint and got pretty sick, dreaded using it ever since.
What types of paint are acetone based? I hadn't thought of that either, but acetone does a wonderful job of dissolving ABS and celluloid, so I can see why that might be a problem! I'm going to make a mockup body wing out of scrap poplar and bind it for experimental purposes. I've never had much luck masking things, but haven't tried the 3M tape. If that works I'll be happy, the scraping looks like a high skill process. Science!
Maple,
I like the idea of clearcoat as a sealer, but I wonder if that's asking for trouble by overcoating with oil based color, then WB again? Another call to Rustoleum tech support. Another experiment I had in mind was getting a quart of the Varathane floor finish and tinting it with tints-all, which is supposed to be mixable with WB, and trying it through a Preval. I can't remember discussion about that one way or the other on the WB thread. If that worked, I could use Varathane for sealer, color, and clearcoat which would be ideal. I once poisoned myself with spray paint and got pretty sick, dreaded using it ever since.
Detail Sanding, The Movie....
Not my favorite part of this build
The whole painting process has got me tied up in knots. I had really wanted to do all water-based to avoid the toxicity, but there doesn't seem to be a good way to do that without investing in a compressor setup. Now I'm obsessively watching every available Youtube video on rattlecan paintjobs, weighing the pros and cons between nitro (pretty much all cons as far as durability), poly, and enamel. I decided to make a test body wing to experiment on with paint, scraping binding, etc. I realized about half way through it that it's better than my original template for the upper body wing, so this will also serve as a template for Hossenfeffer II. It's just 3/4" poplar with .060" white ABS binding, not a perfect analog for maple, but similar hardness.
Not my favorite part of this build
The whole painting process has got me tied up in knots. I had really wanted to do all water-based to avoid the toxicity, but there doesn't seem to be a good way to do that without investing in a compressor setup. Now I'm obsessively watching every available Youtube video on rattlecan paintjobs, weighing the pros and cons between nitro (pretty much all cons as far as durability), poly, and enamel. I decided to make a test body wing to experiment on with paint, scraping binding, etc. I realized about half way through it that it's better than my original template for the upper body wing, so this will also serve as a template for Hossenfeffer II. It's just 3/4" poplar with .060" white ABS binding, not a perfect analog for maple, but similar hardness.
If you use the Pro Finisher water based acrylic floor finish that is extensively discussed in the Using Water-based Products thread it works perfectly well applied by hand with a good quality foam brush. When I go to the big box building materials stores (Lowes for sure and maybe also Home Depot), I find really cheap, really bad foam brushes that fail quickly from the foam tearing and ones made by Wooster that work great.
On my first build I put 5 or 6 coats. Very light level sanding after every other coat with 400, dry. You can get the coats nicely even and they go on thicker than if sprayed. Bolt the body to a stick and clamp it to something. Do the edges first, then the front and back without waiting for the edges to dry, so you can flow the top finish into the edge finish. No runs at all when you get the hang of putting on pretty much finish and then very lightly stroking it out even and smooth. I wet sanded with 600, then 1200, finally 2000 after allowing 3 days to completely dry. No sand-throughs (which is why I started with 600 instead of 320 or 400). Then I hand-applied Maguire's medium cut followed by their swirl remover, rubbing vigorously with an old tee shirt. Afterwards I just looked at it in amazement, like Really? I did this? Nothing went wrong? It came out way better than I could have imagined. Hours of sanding and grain filling really paid off.
Maybe not your finish of choice, but it IS one way to get a nice even gloss finish without any spray equipment...
John
On my first build I put 5 or 6 coats. Very light level sanding after every other coat with 400, dry. You can get the coats nicely even and they go on thicker than if sprayed. Bolt the body to a stick and clamp it to something. Do the edges first, then the front and back without waiting for the edges to dry, so you can flow the top finish into the edge finish. No runs at all when you get the hang of putting on pretty much finish and then very lightly stroking it out even and smooth. I wet sanded with 600, then 1200, finally 2000 after allowing 3 days to completely dry. No sand-throughs (which is why I started with 600 instead of 320 or 400). Then I hand-applied Maguire's medium cut followed by their swirl remover, rubbing vigorously with an old tee shirt. Afterwards I just looked at it in amazement, like Really? I did this? Nothing went wrong? It came out way better than I could have imagined. Hours of sanding and grain filling really paid off.
Maybe not your finish of choice, but it IS one way to get a nice even gloss finish without any spray equipment...
John
Freekmagnet
Commercial User
@Freekmagnet
What have you been spraying through it? Any review greatly appreciated as I'm about ready to buy one. I just asked about it on the water based finishes thread here:
Using water based products for instrument finishing, Target Coatings 9000 6000 and Varathane WB
Any way you post a little review of it on that thread? I can't be the only guy looking for something like this.
What have you been spraying through it? Any review greatly appreciated as I'm about ready to buy one. I just asked about it on the water based finishes thread here:
Using water based products for instrument finishing, Target Coatings 9000 6000 and Varathane WB
Any way you post a little review of it on that thread? I can't be the only guy looking for something like this.
Freekmagnet
Commercial User
I use it to spray WB Varathane. I haven't tried the ProFinisher everyone's using yet, but I'm sure it would work.
I gotta say that any review I could could give would be pretty unqualified - aside from PreVals (which failed rather unspectacularly with the WB Varathane), I haven't used anything else so I have nothing to compare it with. However, there's other guys out there using these. In fact, in the very first post in the water based mega-thread you mentioned, Drake points out that he's using that very spray rig, and he seems to do OK.
Also, if you buy one at HF, they'll take it back no questions asked if you hate the unit.
I've been reading reviews online and haven't found a bad one yet. The WB Varathane is exactly what I plan on using, you can only get Profinisher in gallons as far as I know. Any advice on thinning it to spray, volume settings, etc.? As I understand it, the only adjustment available is paint volume, the air volume is fixed. Do you remember which needle worked best? They advertise it as coming with three needles.
Freekmagnet
Commercial User
Gosh, that was a while ago and I don't remember the specific mix quantities. Somewhere in that thread Bruce referred to a "magic formula" that worked form me. Floetrol is key. I used the finest needle. The general idea is lots of very, very thin coats. The lack of settings will actually work in your favor if you're like me and you have limited finishing experience.
Thanks @Freekmagnet , I PM'd Drake to see if he has any suggestions. I'm decided, getting one of these, and will post a full review of how it goes! I feel better now, was REALLY dreading the idea of oil-based laquer or poly in rattlecans. I have poisoned myself sick in the past using them, and just the thought gives me a pounding headache. I'll still use a respirator and home-built plastic sheet spray booth, but at least I don't have to worry about explosive vapors.
Freekmagnet
Commercial User
Another thing - I really recomm
That's true. The WB stuff is way less of a toxic hassle in some ways.
I really scouring that megathread - WB finishes are kinda weird and counter-intuitive. There's a lot of really good info there.
That's true. The WB stuff is way less of a toxic hassle in some ways.
I really scouring that megathread - WB finishes are kinda weird and counter-intuitive. There's a lot of really good info there.
One thing missing from the HF #44677 HVLP gun manual is how to use the viscocity cup. I called Rockler, who used to sell the same gun under their name, and got tgis link to the downloadable manual. It says to thin material to between 8-20 seconds drain time out of the cup.
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Found one reference. I don't know if it's the same Varathane you're talking about.
