The host band ruined the jam.

[lat]

Jams should be inclusive. Keep it simple so that the song is accessible to all levels of musician. Some folks seem to get their jollies by calling songs with unusual characteristics in order to make themselves feel superior. Total BS, IMO... I would never want to go back to a jam where this was happening, even (especially?) to just listen.

 

[richntiff]

To my way of thinking - there are so many tunings used now, E standard, Eb standard, on down to Drop C# and etc etc etc. The best thing ALL can do is simply ask the question before downbeat - hey, how are you tuned? It's really that easy. Nobody is a moron for tuning to Eb standard - he probably doesn't think twice about it, if they always play in that tuning....

 

[Bob Coldwell]

Wow. I have to say the host/singer/bar owner was wrong and ignorant to not inform the other jammers that his band was tuned down. Perhaps he doesn't play an instrument, so didn't know? Or forgot?

About "What key is this?": It's about context. If I'm watching a tutorial on youtube and the person is detuned or capoed, I don't need or want him/her to talk in actual pitch. BUT I want to be informed that is is in "C capoed at 2nd fret" or whatever.

Now ... I also think it's the alternately tuned guitarist's responsibility to know and tell the other jammers "For those not using a capo, it's in D"

 

[Spidey2112]

The host band-not bad- tuned to E flat. Why? Because when they play by themselves that's what they do.

Sounds like you got the memo, and maybe everybody else didn't?

 

[mrjim123]

Sounds like the "leader"/venue owner is just using this as an easy gig. Hosting a jam is a skill in and of itself. Like Johnny Carson, the goal is not to look good, but to make the guests look good. And refusing to tune to E? That's just lazy and/or stupid.

+1. The host band really should try to accommodate the majority of players that are likely to show up. Eb is a horrible key for a bass player.

 

[Mushroo]

Eb is a horrible key for a bass player.

Easy if you change to Eb tuning and call it E.

 

[ole Jason]

The guitarist is "correct" to call that chord E instead of F#.

I take it you don't work much with horn players? When John Coltrane played Bb on his saxophone, he called it C. When Jimi Hendrix played Eb on his guitar, he called it E. Same difference.

It depends on the context. I've never been on a jazz gig where horn players didn't call tunes in concert pitch. I've really only ever encountered guitarists who do what you're talking about. It might be normal in guitar focused genres but definitely not anywhere else. Either way everyone should know how to transpose on the fly IMO.

 

[JRA]

When John Coltrane played Bb on his saxophone, he called it C. When Jimi Hendrix played Eb on his guitar, he called it E. Same difference.

not quite: when coltrane played Bb on his instrument he knew it was concert Ab that he was playing. not sure about jimi, but i suspect he was just using 'shorthand' for other down-tuned players...e.g., "E shape."

Eb is a horrible key for a bass player.

really? it's the key of many tunes in lots of genres. if you play with horns much = lots of flat keys.

edit: clarity

 

[lat]

To my way of thinking - there are so many tunings used now, E standard, Eb standard, on down to Drop C# and etc etc etc. The best thing ALL can do is simply ask the question before downbeat - hey, how are you tuned? It's really that easy. Nobody is a moron for tuning to Eb standard - he probably doesn't think twice about it, if they always play in that tuning....

If someone is in non-standard tuning, IMO it is their responsibility to tell EVERYONE what they are tuned to. If they knowingly withhold crucial information like this, I question their motives as to why they would do that. It seems like passaggro BS to me.

 

[Mushroo]

Jams should be inclusive. Keep it simple so that the song is accessible to all levels of musician.

Maybe the bottom line in this situation was this: The house band that was hosting the jam didn't want their jam to be "inclusive and accessible to all levels of musician." Maybe they wanted to weed out the amateurs who don't know how to figure out the key of a song.

I'm not saying this behavior is something to be applauded. But there definitely is a culture, in certain jam circles, of "cutting" or trying to embarrass other musicians to make yourself look better. Calling songs in unusual keys is certainly a time-honored strategy to separate the amateurs from the pros.

 

[Sixgunn]

I went to a newish jam where the host band is also fronted by the venue owner.
The host band-not bad- tuned to E flat. Why? Because when they play by themselves that's what they do.
I got up and tuned down. Everybody else was out of tune all night, two piano players couldn't play at all because the band leader called all the keys wrong (When you're tuned down, it isn't E anymore moron) Everybody scrambled to get in tune.
I mentioned it in passing to the BL, but it wasn't my jam. Everybody left (bad sound didn't help things.)
When his jam dies, it will be nobody's fault but him.

Nails on a chalkboard usually sounds better than most "Jam Nights".

 

[Spidey2112]

Maybe they wanted to weed out the amateurs who don't know how to figure out the key of a song.

 

[lat]

Maybe the bottom line in this situation was this: The house band that was hosting the jam didn't want their jam to be "inclusive and accessible to all levels of musician." Maybe they wanted to weed out the amateurs who don't know how to figure out the key of a song.

I'm not saying this behavior is something to be applauded. But there definitely is a culture, in certain jam circles, of "cutting" or trying to embarrass other musicians to make yourself look better. Calling songs in unusual keys is certainly a time-honored strategy to separate the amateurs from the pros.

Yeah, I've seen it happen and experienced it on stage at a jam. My philosophy is I am there to serve the song. Pulling crap like that is self-serving, and is something I will avoid like the plague.

 

[aborgman]

T
PS to your "moron" comment, the guitarist was actually correct in this situation; it is common and accepted practice to call their bottom string "E" even though it is actually tuned to concert Eb.

Ehh... it's common in rock bands and blues bands... everywhere else in the music world, not so much.

 

[Quinn Roberts]

They're called ears folks; use 'em.

 

[SAlcott]

"Calling songs in unusual keys is certainly a time-honored strategy to separate the amateurs from the pros."

When I first came to NYC, I went to quite a few sessions in many different genres. I got my ass handed to me a few times when standard repertoire was played in "non-standard" keys. I went home and practiced.

 

[Oldtimer]

yeah , been there before ....
once at a fill-in gig , the band leader waited till downbeat to tell me they were all tuned in E flat ...

I had the same scenario, except the bandleader didn't mention it. I had to figure it out during the intro!

 

[LBS-bass]

I think a lot more of it is- Stevie Ray Vaughn claimed all the tone in a guitar is in heavy string, but you have to tune down to bend them. Most of the downtuners I meet call 'Cold Shot' for the first song. It can't be coincidence.

This is correct. As a vocalist, I can't believe for a minute that a half-step tune down is the magical formula for vocal range in every single song. There was a long thread about this a while ago, but it's either for bendability on heavy strings (SRV) or for depth of tone (metal). It might help a singer on one or two songs. But it's absolutely stupid to do a jam like this.

 

[Nashrakh]

I, too, have a greater problem with the lack of communication regarding the transposition than the fact itself. As pointed out, it's not that uncommon, but you can't assume that everyone knows how it works, especially players of C instruments. Weeding out players sounds likely, but I would question that strategy for a start-up jam thing.

That doesn't change the fact that every time I have to read a chart with capos it makes my skin crawl...

Btw, Eb major is one of my favorite keys (the "heroic" key for you Beethoven afficionados). I play with horns so much that somehow, that key has become my go-to...

 

[mrjim123]

The host band should have made it clear that they tune down a half step. That said, if you can't play in Eb as easily as you play in E, maybe some practice is in order.

I can easily play in Eb, so practice is irrelevant. It's all about the availability, or lack thereof, of notes that you can play. In Eb the lowest root you can play is pretty high in pitch. It can be done, but for certain songs (Superstition, for example) it leaves something to be desired.