The Ken Smith Club

[Saluki]

I've played a ton of Smith 5's across the different models and never noticed any difference in neck profile. As to your comparison with the Cirrus neck - the Smith 5 neck is definitely more shallow. It's one of the fastest necks that I've played (which isn't a big deal to me specifically for my playing style, but I've definitely noticed it.) So I'm not sure what's going on with the neck you played that had a deeper profile.

Jason,

It feels kinda like a warwick profile, but not as chunky as far as depth and the first position feels like a roscoe from top to bottom of the neck, which to me feels pretty narrow. It plays great and feels great for sure, but it does remind me of a some of the warwicks I have had tonally. I beleive the build quality is better, but the midforwardness (maden word?) is similar. No flamming required, I do like it.

 

[Orangeclawhammr]

I don't own one. I probably never will be able to afford one. However, I heard one this past Saturday. I can see why you have them.

Of course, it helped that the guy who was playing it could play well.

 

[DrGroovenstein]

In short, there is magic in the smith pre-amp. You need to mess with the dip switches and learn the interaction between the series switches and pickup panning. It really is more versatile than most people think. That said, if you want to sit under a mix like a Fender style instrument, it isn't going to happen with a Smith! Next time I order strings, I'm going to try some Smith burners (nickel) and see what that does to the tone as compared to the SS Smiths.

I'm on my 3rd smith now. The neck profile of all three has been different. My BSR5J neck is much thinner, just as Vic has said, and plays much faster. It's actually the bass I just all other basses by -- it just feels that good. The Elite I had was much deeper profile though it was a 19mm bass. My current GN is sort of in the middle of those two, a bit deep, but more like a 90s Warwick (not a 2000s Warwick).

 

[Vic]

I've played a ton of Smith 5's across the different models and never noticed any difference in neck profile. As to your comparison with the Cirrus neck - the Smith 5 neck is definitely more shallow. It's one of the fastest necks that I've played (which isn't a big deal to me specifically for my playing style, but I've definitely noticed it.) So I'm not sure what's going on with the neck you played that had a deeper profile.

Yeah, I didn't mean to make it sound like it was the same, just "more like" and compared to the BSRJ, tho I guess without a decent point of reference for the BSRJ, especially since it's a lesser known model, probably wasn't helpful.

Yeah, I definitely agree it's shallower than a Cirrus, which is ALMOST a D profile. Just that at least this MS was noticeably deeper than the BSRJ. I'll see if I can get a caliper measurement of some kind and maybe we can compare notes.

Mainly tho, don't get me wrong, it was not a negative comment. The MS was a pleasure to play. I just noticed it was different, so I asked.

 

[vision]

The Elite I had was much deeper profile though it was a 19mm bass.

+1...I forgot about this in my previous post - the 19mm Elites that I've played have had a deeper neck profile than the standard Smith 5 necks...

 

[DrGroovenstein]

I'd call my current one a C, and the 19mm was more like a D (like it had shoulders or something).

 

[Vic]

In short, there is magic in the smith pre-amp. You need to mess with the dip switches and learn the interaction between the series switches and pickup panning. It really is more versatile than most people think.

I spent a fair amount of time doing this last night, and of course you're right.

In particular, I took what I considered to be the "worst" sound it had and saw what I could do with it. This was the bridge pickup, solo'd, in series mode. What I found was, if I dropped the mids about 20%, boosted the bass about 10-15%, and maybe bumped the treble a tad (or none at all), it opened it up really nicely.

That said, I then I flattened all the EQ and went back to parallel mode, and still just liked it better, BUT, at least I wasn't "unhappy" with that new sound, and of course the more usable new sounds you can get, the more versatility you can enjoy. The key was the ability to cut the mids, and do so at the right frequency center. I definitely feel the Smith preamp is (as it should be) very well matched to the instrument.

Note: When I speak percentages above, that's literally just knob rotation range. I have no way to accurately gauge actual boost/cut percentages in dB, and I know it's not linear, so I'm just trying to keep it simple/reproducible.

That said, if you want to sit under a mix like a Fender style instrument, it isn't going to happen with a Smith!

Yeah, this is really all I was trying to say, but also trying hard to keep it from sounding like a slam.

I'm on my 3rd smith now. The neck profile of all three has been different. My BSR5J neck is much thinner, just as Vic has said, and plays much faster. It's actually the bass I just all other basses by -- it just feels that good. The Elite I had was much deeper profile though it was a 19mm bass. My current GN is sort of in the middle of those two, a bit deep, but more like a 90s Warwick (not a 2000s Warwick).

Cool! This is EXACTLY the case with me, though at this point, it's only been the one BSRJ and the one MS so far.

 

[rodneyat]

I'd call my current one a C, and the 19mm was more like a D (like it had shoulders or something).

I would definitely agree with that. I guess I would know since you ended up with my 19mm. I think we both quickly decided that neck was a beast!

I am trying to remember back to my BSR MW. Maybe Ken does a thinner neck profile across the board on the bolt on models. The back also flattens out a lot as you hit the 10th/11th fret or so.

 

[Vic]

+1...I forgot about this in my previous post - the 19mm Elites that I've played have had a deeper neck profile than the standard Smith 5 necks...

I'd call my current one a C, and the 19mm was more like a D (like it had shoulders or something).

FWIW, I'm pretty sure this one is the standard 18mm, but I can double check tonight. I'm not sure how much longer I'll have the bass tho... I'm sure Cory's gonna' want it back before too long.

 

[Vic]

I would definitely agree with that. I guess I would know since you ended up with my 19mm. I think we both quickly decided that neck was a beast!

I am trying to remember back to my BSR MW. Maybe Ken does a thinner neck profile across the board on the bolt on models. The back also flattens out a lot as you hit the 10th/11th fret or so.

Another good point. Yeah, I'm also comparing a bolt-on to a neck through, and of course you're right, it does flatten out a lot as you go up due to his neck slope integration into the body.

 

[vision]

In particular, I took what I considered to be the "worst" sound it had and saw what I could do with it. This was the bridge pickup, solo'd, in series mode. What I found was, if I dropped the mids about 20%, boosted the bass about 10-15%, and maybe bumped the treble a tad (or none at all), it opened it up really nicely.

That said, I then I flattened all the EQ and went back to parallel mode, and still just liked it better, BUT, at least I wasn't "unhappy" with that new sound, and of course the more usable new sounds you can get, the more versatility you can enjoy. The key was the ability to cut the mids, and do so at the right frequency center. I definitely feel the Smith preamp is (as it should be) very well matched to the instrument.

Nice! I really love the Smith preamp - the typical way I would run it is with the neck pickup in series and the bridge parallel, with a slight bit of bass and treble boost. That bass control is great for adding some meat to the mid focused standard Smith tone, and having that bridge pickup in parallel allows me do be able to bring out that traditional Smith tone when I wanted to my digging in a bit and varying my right hand position.

That pre is REALLY clean in the studio as well.

 

[vision]

FWIW, I'm pretty sure this one is the standard 18mm, but I can double check tonight. I'm not sure how much longer I'll have the bass tho... I'm sure Cory's gonna' want it back before too long.

Yep, you can only get 19mm on an Elite - so all GN's are gonna be 18mm.

 

[Vic]

That pre is REALLY clean in the studio as well.

Yeah, I've heard lotsa' recordings where this is very evident... and there's no mistaking it's a Smith on the track, too.

 

[KJung]

Yep, you can only get 19mm on an Elite - so all GN's are gonna be 18mm.

Hey Jason. Did you ever play Larry Lee's 'wide 5' Smith?

Hilarious... it felt like .22 or something at the bridge. I literally couldn't play it, but Larry, with those huge hands, just cruised on it. I think the 'wide' option is, for all practical purposes, a six string neck with 5 strings.

 

[rodneyat]

Yep, you can only get 19mm on an Elite - so all GN's are gonna be 18mm.

Actually, you can get it on a GN. A couple of years ago I went back and forth about ordering a GN with 19mm spacing. I talked to Ken about it and he had an Elite in stock he could sell or I could wait 4-6 months for the GN to be built. I am impatient...so I bought the Elite. My guess is that he won't do it on a bolt on though. At least, I have never seen one.

 

[vision]

Actually, you can get it on a GN. A couple of years ago I went back and forth about ordering a GN with 19mm spacing. I talked to Ken about it and he had an Elite in stock he could sell or I could wait 4-6 months for the GN to be built. I am impatient...so I bought the Elite. My guess is that he won't do it on a bolt on though. At least, I have never seen one.

Really? When I ordered my GN from Ken in 08 he told me that I couldn't get wide spacing on a GN. Has anyone actually seen a GN built with wide spacing?

Edit: I take that back - I just checked the price list and according to the chart it's definitely an available option for the GN's....man I have some major Smith GAS again!

 

[vision]

Hey Jason. Did you ever play Larry Lee's 'wide 5' Smith?

Hilarious... it felt like .22 or something at the bridge. I literally couldn't play it, but Larry, with those huge hands, just cruised on it. I think the 'wide' option is, for all practical purposes, a six string neck with 5 strings.

Nope, I haven't seen that one!

 

[Vic]

Really? When I ordered my GN from Ken in 08 he told me that I couldn't get wide spacing on a GN. Has anyone actually seen a GN built with wide spacing?

You may have simply caught him on a bad day. Ken's an interesting character... to say the least. I called him with a technical question and he ended up chatting about all kindsa' stuff. I woulda' figured he'd have just responded and told me he needed to get back to it ASAP.

 

[DrGroovenstein]

FWIW, I'm pretty sure this one is the standard 18mm, but I can double check tonight. I'm not sure how much longer I'll have the bass tho... I'm sure Cory's gonna' want it back before too long.

You would know if it was 19mm. That 1mm on a Smith is substantial, it adds a ton of weight and makes the nut huge.

 

[vision]

You may have simply caught him on a bad day. Ken's an interesting character... to say the least. I called him with a technical question and he ended up chatting about all kindsa' stuff. I woulda' figured he'd have just responded and told me he needed to get back to it ASAP.

+1...I've definitely talked to him on "good days" and "bad days"...