The 'magic' of passive electronics?

[crazycloud]

I thought the feltcher Munson thing was when somebody didn't know how much they didn't know.

You're referring to Dunning Kruger.
And it's Fletcher Munson.

 

[crazycloud]

It’s silly to talk about compression with passive basses.

Amen.
Same with active preamps that are simply amplification stages, that are not a specific compressor, something I've never seen in a bass.

 

[Passinwind]

Amen.
Same with active preamps that are simply amplification stages, that are not a specific compressor, something I've never seen in a bass.

If you mean you've never seen an onboard compressor, now you have: JTEX Electronics - OKC (compressor)

Not the first though, the old Gibson RD models from the late 70s had one too, designed by Robert Moog no less.

 

[crazycloud]

If you mean you've never seen an onboard compressor,

No, all I said was I've never seen a simple amplifier/EQ stage (almost all bass guitar preamps) behave the same as an actual compressor and I'm an EE so I know how they work. People describing a pre or a PU as 'compressed' does not mean it actually is compressed.
I certainly did not mean a real compressor as onboard FX have been around for a very long time

 

[brianrost]

Not the first though, the old Gibson RD models from the late 70s had one too, designed by Robert Moog no less.

There’s been other guitars and basses with onboard compressors that came and went over the years.

Here’s a module that fit the Electra instruments from the late 70s. Most were guitars, LP, 335 and Explorer copies made by Matsumoku.

The 1977 Electra X610 bass, it had space for two modules.

Gretsch Super Axe guitar wih onboard phaser and compressor from 1977

 

[Passinwind]

No, all I said was I've never seen a simple amplifier/EQ stage (almost all bass guitar preamps) behave the same as an actual compressor and I'm an EE so I know how they work. People describing a pre or a PU as 'compressed' does not mean it actually is compressed.
I certainly did not mean a real compressor as onboard FX have been around for a very long time

Cool, it wasn't clear to me from the way you phrased it. And yeah, one of many questionable attributions we often hear on TB and elsewhere. I can speak jive when needed but I don't have to like it!

 

[Paul New]

I've tried it, Mr Thread Police. I didn't like it.

Happy now?

I've sat out hundreds of such threads. So be proud you found the one thread I've commented on.

I bet that Ray sounds as good as it looks.

 

[robert_stuart]

Yes, most basses with an active/passive switch that I've seen are true bypass, with one of the goals of them working without a battery

Ah! Ok, that seems like a pretty good bright line. Thank you.

 

[robert_stuart]

Polanyi Paradox ... We see similar things in other areas of knowledge/science too - what may be consider BS in a previous era can become science once our theories and methods catch up.

Interesting, thanks! Epistemology and philosophy of science are "hobbies" of mine.

 

[ctmullins]

Passive bass = raw bench
Active bass = shirted

Raw is more impressive imho

I have literally no idea what this means.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

I have literally no idea what this means.

Well in powerlifting, if you do a bench press without a special suit on, it's raw. If you wear a specialised suit, it assists muscle contraction and enables greater weight to be pushed.
What's that got to do with the price of eggs? Well I reckon a passive bass is doing its' thing 'raw' unassisted. Active is doing its' thing assisted electronically speaking.

 

[markanini]

The elephant in the room is that some of the most popular passive pickups have very much active-coded voicing, such as the SD Quarter Pouder P/J and Dimarzio Model P/J

 

[fig]

I wonder what the signal paths are like on basses with a passive/active switch. I.e., is it a "true" passive which shows effects from e.g. a long guitar cord?

There are different bypass methods. I can only show you the signal paths in my bass, which is true bypass and the bass feels the effect of cable capacitance in Passive. I usually draw a schematic/diagram of the original wiring to keep track of mods. The pickups are passive. Plays in Passive mode without battery.

Below is the relevant portion of my bass (Michael Kelly Pinnacle) showing the Active and Passive Paths. Note the contact positions in the blue Push/Pull Switch (P/P Switch). The signal in upper left is coming from my Blend Pot. The 3 lines on the left connected to the preamp are Treb, Mid, Bass pots.

-When Active, the signal gets routed across the jumper wire (d to c), through the P/P Switch to the preamp Input. Once processed, the preamp Output signal is sent back to the P/P Switch then sent to the Master Vol Pot, lug 3.

-When Passive, the signal is routed through the P/P Switch and sent directly to the Master Vol Pot. Preamp's Input and Output are disconnected from the signal path, so no unwanted loading. True bypass.

So this bass has true bypass and it does feel the effects of cable capacitance when Passive. Hope this was helpful.

FWIW, this true bypass configuration allows a Battery On/Off switch to be installed. When in Passive mode, the battery can be switched on and off all day long without the dreaded !POP! that happens when powering a preamp on or off. That's the only mod I installed in this bass. Now I can switch to Passive, turn the battery off, and play myself into a stupor LOL. Also stops battery drain when leaving cable plugged in for long periods.:

If anyone passing through is interested in the Batt On/Off Switch mod, the following two criteria must be met.

1. Bass must operate in Passive without battery.

2. Pass a quick one minute 'POP Test' (two minutes if you're having a slow day).:
-- With bass in Active mode and equipment on at low volume, disconnect and reconnect the battery (simulates an On/Off switch). You should hear pops as preamp powers on and off.
-- With bass in Passive mode and equipment on at low volume, disconnect and reconnect the battery. No pops shall be heard. Start increasing equipment volume to playing level. No pops shall be heard.

If your bass passes, congrats! You can install the Batt Switch mod, if desired.