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Double Bass The New Standard

#81
I don't see why playing new tunes in an old style is any more a novelty than vice versa. some punk bands cover 50s pop tunes. is that really that much better than playing something like "virtual insanity" in the style of Oscar Peterson? not to mention that that tune has legitimate jazz changes in the first place.

it's not inherently kitschy, it's simply perceived as such given all the stuff out there like hayseed dixie, richard cheese, etc. and some tunes wouldn't work. true. but not every tune from tin pan alley was adapted to bebop. just the ones that sounded good in that style and had good
changes. just because lady gaga's "disco stick" would suck with a jazz vibe doesn't mean morphine's "candy" would.
 
#82
Michael Case said:
Damon, you have to look at yourself in the mirror everyday so your choices are perfect for you, but not anybody else. We all need to make our decisions for ourselves and not care what an audience or anybody on this forum thinks. If the band is diggin what they are playing chances are the crowd will follow. If not, have fun take your money and go home. If you don't like the "new standard" concept, don't take gigs doing that, don't buy those CDs that feature "new standards" and just live and let live. Amazing concept eh?

Too many busy bodies trying to save everybody from themselves.
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Right, but it is a discussion, there are a lot of strong opinions on this and all them have value. We all probably have better things to do than argue about things on the interwebs.
While I stand by what I have to say, my opinion isn't more or less valid than anyone else's.
It is good to have them on the table situations like this.
 
#83
I hear you Damon, but this has gone from a question that originally was a discussion of what tunes people do and how do they arrange them to a philosophical debate over the merits of the "new standard" movement.

I think Jimi Hendrix's music is a good field of exploration for this concept. Also I like what Alex Scholnick (guitarist from the '80s metal band Testament) does along with hi original jazz tunes he does "metal standards." Tunes from Black Sabbath and other classic metal bands in a jazz trio setting.
 
#84
Michael Case said:
I hear you Damon, but this has gone from a question that originally was a discussion of what tunes people do and how do they arrange them to a philosophical debate over the merits of the "new standard" movement.
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Which is very irritating to anyone interested in what popular tunes others are playing these days. If someone doesn't have something to contribute sans unasked for commentary it would be polite to stay quiet. A search for similar threads over the years turns up similar hijacking. This forum in general would be a more useful resource if folks parked their unsolicited opinions at the door and made an effort to address the original question.
 
#85
I dunno, guys. A little criticism and debate never hurt anyone.

You may never persuade Damon to change his views, but at the same time, it's a good idea to reflect and reevaluate your own positions from time to time.

If you feel strongly about something, why not examine why you feel the way you do? If your position is solid, it can withstand some critique.

In fact, it may become stronger. You can evaluate why it might not be working for some people, which may push you to further explore your vision. Maybe even improve some of your arrangements.

Isn't pushing yourself kind of the goal of any creative endeavor?
 
#86
transition said:
I dunno, guys. A little criticism and debate never hurt anyone.

You may never persuade Damon to change his views, but at the same time, it's a good idea to reflect and reevaluate your own positions from time to time.

If you feel strongly about something, why not examine why you feel the way you do? If your position is solid, it can withstand some critique.

In fact, it may become stronger. You can evaluate why it might not be working for some people, which may push you to further explore your vision. Maybe even improve some of your arrangements.

Isn't pushing yourself kind of the goal of any creative endeavor?
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This is all true but there is also the risk of becoming entrenched in your own ideals. I'm not implying that is what is happening to anyone in this discussion but I know I've definitely gotten so sure of my own points that I was blind to any others.
 
#87
Tampabass said:
not sure if this has been mentioned, but ... Joshua Redman's Elastic Band does a great version of Zep's "The Crunge" YouTube - Joshua Redman/Elastic Band- The Crunge
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See, I have that Redman CD, like that song, and until just now had no idea it was a cover of a Zeppelin song. That, to me, indicates that he did a good job with it and played it without irony or too much reference to the original.

My primary project is an original music one, but we have enough covers in our book to get us onto a few stages that we couldn't get on without. We try to choose them wisely, avoid anything current, avoid typical cover band vocabulary, and - the hardest part - play every tune like we wrote it, with no irony. We have not always succeeded, and a few really great 80s tunes didn't last in the set because of that exact issue.
 
#88
fingers said:
This is all true but there is also the risk of becoming entrenched in your own ideals. I'm not implying that is what is happening to anyone in this discussion but I know I've definitely gotten so sure of my own points that I was blind to any others.
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This is exactly what I'm trying (and apparently failing) to say: re-examine your position. Why do you* think it's okay (or not okay) to do ______? Are those reasons still valid for you? In the time that's passed, and with the growth that's (hopefully) happened, do you feel differently, or have a different angle on the same view? Etc...

BTW, sorry I missed you in Madison...


*generic "you" - not singling out any specific person. I dunno - this is the kind of thing I do to myself. Helps me stay out of a rut, or gets me out if I was in one.
 
#90
WJGreer said:
We try to choose them wisely, avoid anything current, avoid typical cover band vocabulary, and - the hardest part - play every tune like we wrote it, with no irony.
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Philosophical detour: This, to me, is the approach that The Bad Plus takes, to their credit. IMO, when you actively employ irony in the performance, and look at it all as "tongue in cheek," then that creates a sort of distancing effect which ends up precluding the musicians from feeling any sort of intimacy with the tune at hand. And without that intimacy or sense of being connected to the material, then it's less likely you'll be able to connect with listeners.

Back on point: In my acoustic-electric "jazz-plus" group (I alternate between upright and fretless) we're doing a version of the theme from "2001" that's sort of the Phish version by way of Deodato's '70s disco thing. We're emphasizing the groove/funk part of it and stretching it out. I'm very conscious of the potential for "cheese" with this tune, but I'm hoping that we can avoid it.

& lately, I'm really liking what The Bad Plus does with Bowie's "Life on Mars" - YouTube - The Bad Plus - Life on Mars
 
#92
IMO, all this discussion lacks is: tweed jackets, bow ties and tobacco. The issue pales in comparison to nuclear physics, astronomy, the existence or nonesistence of god, etc.
Geez, if you like a tune and wanna play it, play it. Let those who disagree play the tunes they like and let it go.
 

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