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Double Bass The New Standard
- Thread starter jolkszost
- Start date
IMO, it comes down to sincerity. I'm turned off if it seems like someone is doing a tune to be trendy or ironic or "cute" or whatever label you want to put on it.
But if they really bring something to it, I don't care where it came from.
The Chris Greene Quartet (featuring TB's fingers!) nails this. Their version of King of Pain is good music, plain and simple.
But if they really bring something to it, I don't care where it came from.
The Chris Greene Quartet (featuring TB's fingers!) nails this. Their version of King of Pain is good music, plain and simple.
Testify! I listened to the mp3 of that recorded live when it was posted here on another thread (and a few others) -- very cool arrangements, well played, great music. Pity about the ignoramuses talking in front, someone shoulda towed those cows out back.
transition you got it. I don't play pop tunes to be ironic or cute, I play Nirvana songs because they were the first songs I learned ever, and I have grown as a person and hope to take the music with me.
Let's get back to the real life examples of tunes!
Anyone hear Monty Alexander playing Reggae? It's pretty tight.
Let's get back to the real life examples of tunes!
Anyone hear Monty Alexander playing Reggae? It's pretty tight.
Thanks bro. Those are some fun cats to play with.
BTW I'll in in Mad-town tomorrow night playing with a singer/songwriter at Mickey Tavern at 10pm. Invalid Link Removed Say hey if you come out.
oh and in case you suck at history....
to "koe tow" is to bend over, that the deigned authority might cut your head off. heavy talk for a stupid little bass chat, no? god forbid we should play repertoire that is deemed "less than artistic" from members of our board. off with your head!:scowl: off with your heads.
to "koe tow" is to bend over, that the deigned authority might cut your head off. heavy talk for a stupid little bass chat, no? god forbid we should play repertoire that is deemed "less than artistic" from members of our board. off with your head!:scowl: off with your heads.
Agreed.
I like that one, too. There's another phenomenon that happens, as well: throughout the history of jazz, new tunes get "introduced" to the scene by a great/interesting version by an artist with a particular vision about the tune. Others, seeing the tune in that light for the first time, begin to play it and experiment with it, and often the tune gets added to the canon, as it were. I think of Miles with "If I Were A Bell" and many others, Coltrane with "My Favorite Things", etc.
Along the lines of listing songs that others have done, Kenny Werner has a nice "new standard" (Tears in Heaven) and and old standard (Sicilienne by JS Bach) on his "Form and Fantasy" recording from a few years back.
For those who are interested I posted a live version of King of Pain from our 2009 live album Playtime to the site linked above. The recording quality is MUCH better, there is a real piano, and the crowd is more respectful. Invalid Link Removed.
I agree with this:
So the material shouldn't matter so much
But, this is has also been my experience, (changing "often" to "ever"):
And great as Kenny Werner is, a jazz version of "Tears in Heaven" sounds particularly dreadful!!
While I, more than anyone, would say any material can be made into art, I don't think ANYONE can can say that as a trend "New Standard" has been a total artistic success.
For now, more than likely it will just make you sound like you are jumping on the bandwagon.
So the material shouldn't matter so much
But, this is has also been my experience, (changing "often" to "ever"):
And great as Kenny Werner is, a jazz version of "Tears in Heaven" sounds particularly dreadful!!
While I, more than anyone, would say any material can be made into art, I don't think ANYONE can can say that as a trend "New Standard" has been a total artistic success.
For now, more than likely it will just make you sound like you are jumping on the bandwagon.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but Coltrane did pretty good versions of popular tunes. My Favorite Things comes to mind as probably the best example.
He took a tune made famous by a singing nun and a bunch of kids in a technicolor musical and turned it into a 'New Standard'.
If he endured the rath of critics I surely missed it.
He took a tune made famous by a singing nun and a bunch of kids in a technicolor musical and turned it into a 'New Standard'.
If he endured the rath of critics I surely missed it.
not sure if this has been mentioned, but ... Joshua Redman's Elastic Band does a great version of Zep's "The Crunge" YouTube - Joshua Redman/Elastic Band- The Crunge
Perhaps it's worth playing popular songs you don't have so much reverence of. Instead of picking pop songs or movie musical songs, were you think, "I grew up with this, it's sooo grrreat! I love it let's do it!!!!!", (where you can only be less than what's already there.); pick a popular song where you think "I guess it's a good song, but this performance sucks." Then you'll feel more free in cutting it apart and putting it back together in a better way.
Plus when people know the original tune, they'll better appreciate the variations and improvisations on the source material. Isn't this one of the many building blocks of jazz appreciation? A lot of that is lost now, because songs from the songbook standard canon (Berlin, Porter, Gershwin etc) are not so popular anymore in their original form, even by jazz musicians. With the exception of musical theatre kids, people know the 'variations', but not the 'themes'.
Jazz players in the 50's did not cut up and improvise over excerpts of Wagner, Mahler or Brahms or Verdi, they chose the cheap little popular ditties of 15-30 years prior (Berlin, Porter, Gershwin etc.) (insert GASP!! here)
Less solemn reverence, more musical bravery and fun!
Remember the story of how Edison made 10 000 "successful examples of how not to make a light bulb", before he got to one that worked as a model of how to make a light bulb? It's normal that the first dozen or so attempts at arranging and playing popular songs in a non-pop context don't sound good.
Plus when people know the original tune, they'll better appreciate the variations and improvisations on the source material. Isn't this one of the many building blocks of jazz appreciation? A lot of that is lost now, because songs from the songbook standard canon (Berlin, Porter, Gershwin etc) are not so popular anymore in their original form, even by jazz musicians. With the exception of musical theatre kids, people know the 'variations', but not the 'themes'.
Jazz players in the 50's did not cut up and improvise over excerpts of Wagner, Mahler or Brahms or Verdi, they chose the cheap little popular ditties of 15-30 years prior (Berlin, Porter, Gershwin etc.) (insert GASP!! here)
Less solemn reverence, more musical bravery and fun!
Remember the story of how Edison made 10 000 "successful examples of how not to make a light bulb", before he got to one that worked as a model of how to make a light bulb? It's normal that the first dozen or so attempts at arranging and playing popular songs in a non-pop context don't sound good.
I think there is something to this, in "pop art" in the visual art world I feel like the pop culture references don't work when the artist likes them. In the above post about Coltrane doing "My Favorite Things", I felt that it was way different than the "New Standard" trend, and I couldn't put my finger on why, but I think is might be it.
Another issue could be the style and how contemporary it is. Coltrane was updating "My Favorite Things" with an actual newer, more contemporary playing style.
While there have been and continue to be advances in "straight jazz" stylistically it is much, much older than the tunes mentioned.
Even when The Thing (players I respect very much individually) does a free jazz verison of PJ Harvey or Lightning Bolt it is basically taking recent music and playing it in a '60s style.
It is going to be really hard to avoid kitsch when doing it. Nobody has taken any of this "New Standard" material and "moved it forward" the way Coltrane was able to do.
The two main jazz trios who indulge in this, to my ear, play in a watered down Bill Evans trio style and Mr. Evans was long dead before any of these bands being covered were formed.
Generally, it gets stripped of the textural nuances (both in the instrumental parts, distortion, electronic timbres and the singer's voice) that create whatever mild interest the song has and then reduce it to the bland harmony and melody contemporary pop musicians are forced to resort to in order to communicate with the wider public.
While there have been and continue to be advances in "straight jazz" stylistically it is much, much older than the tunes mentioned.
Even when The Thing (players I respect very much individually) does a free jazz verison of PJ Harvey or Lightning Bolt it is basically taking recent music and playing it in a '60s style.
It is going to be really hard to avoid kitsch when doing it. Nobody has taken any of this "New Standard" material and "moved it forward" the way Coltrane was able to do.
The two main jazz trios who indulge in this, to my ear, play in a watered down Bill Evans trio style and Mr. Evans was long dead before any of these bands being covered were formed.
Generally, it gets stripped of the textural nuances (both in the instrumental parts, distortion, electronic timbres and the singer's voice) that create whatever mild interest the song has and then reduce it to the bland harmony and melody contemporary pop musicians are forced to resort to in order to communicate with the wider public.
MLysh said:
OK, but DJs and actual rock bands covering that material are going to sell more beer, so a jazz group is already not the best format for that endeavor.
Another thought is that the "old" standards are more neutral, musicians and listeners from many different backgrounds and generations can meet there.
Most of us took some sort of position about the music of our different youth cultures.
For example, many now seem to have "grown up" on Nirvana, my generation of punk/indie rock musicians will remember them A Lot less fondly as on of the first bands to "sell out" and turn the whole thing onto corporate rock.
I am sure there are many other examples.
Older musicians and listeners just might not relate at all.
Did Nirvana create corporate rock? I often wondered who did that.
Seriously though, if people are doing the "new standard" thing in a venue where a rock cover band or a DJ would be more suitable, then yes I see your point. I also see that there are many people who want to hang in a quieter lounge type place and would enjoy hearing well done jazz arrangements of some more contemporary pop tunes. I think it could be a good addition to a groups set if they are doing some originals and a few "old standards" too. It's all music in the end, if the band digs it and the crowd digs it who cares? Damon, you have to look at yourself in the mirror everyday so your choices are perfect for you, but not anybody else. We all need to make our decisions for ourselves and not care what an audience or anybody on this forum thinks. If the band is diggin what they are playing chances are the crowd will follow. If not, have fun take your money and go home. If you don't like the "new standard" concept, don't take gigs doing that, don't buy those CDs that feature "new standards" and just live and let live. Amazing concept eh?
Too many busy bodies trying to save everybody from themselves.
