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The P doesn't cut through anymore

#41
Noot said:
Hello,

I'm a die-hard fan of the P bass and we've done very well together. But recently I'm playing in a band with two guitarists who are getting comfortable with their playing in the band, thus have become not necessarily louder, but more prominent. Where I used to hear myself loud and clear, I now get drowned in the mix and I feel like I'm just making mud.

Besides the Fender P I have a 5-string Hohner B Bass V, which has a JJ configuration and a maple body. It is a budget bass, sounds very scooped (maybe partly due to the maple body), but when I play it I can actually cut through much better. Since the Hohner is a second bass and not very nice sounding and I love my Fender P, what should I do to cut through better? EQ down the mids so I give more room to guitars? Get brighter sounding strings? Or should I do what I always feared and change the P for a Jazz Bass :bawl:?
Click to expand...

EQ up the mids.
 
#42
Never had a jazz bass heard better in a mix than a p bass. Maybe right by the amp you hear some more highs, but out in the foh, the p bass kicks them in the gut. Flats or rounds, it doesnt matter in my opinion...the p bass simply pushes through like fat albert.
 
#43
First thing check your strings change them for a brand new ones. My preference is Stainless Steel but that is a personal thing.

Secondly remember the guitars sound an octave lower. So you need to work on your amp head the low and high mid range to cut thru the band .

Third play more towards the bridge, the attack of the fingers is around 1 Khz so if you have a parametric EQ on your amp increase the EQ around 500 Hz and the 1 Khz, give a pinch on the lows around 120 Hz and open the treble frequencies. That should make it.

Fourth it looks like a Fender Jazz Bass will be perfect for that band configuration since the Jazz Bass has a natural pronounce mid range.

If you let us know what kind of Amp Head you have we can help you more.
 
#44
I got a graphic EQ a few months ago, and I haven't disappeared in a mix ever since. Those low mids are VERY important for bass, and with my 10-band graphic I can mess with a few other freq's to see where the trouble spots are and eliminate them.
Don't forget to talk to your guitarists tho. Their bass range is usually right where the power is in a bass' signal, so having them turn that down will give you a lot more room.
 
#45
Noot said:
Hello,

I'm a die-hard fan of the P bass and we've done very well together. But recently I'm playing in a band with two guitarists who are getting comfortable with their playing in the band, thus have become not necessarily louder, but more prominent. Where I used to hear myself loud and clear, I now get drowned in the mix and I feel like I'm just making mud.

Besides the Fender P I have a 5-string Hohner B Bass V, which has a JJ configuration and a maple body. It is a budget bass, sounds very scooped (maybe partly due to the maple body), but when I play it I can actually cut through much better. Since the Hohner is a second bass and not very nice sounding and I love my Fender P, what should I do to cut through better? EQ down the mids so I give more room to guitars? Get brighter sounding strings? Or should I do what I always feared and change the P for a Jazz Bass :bawl:?
Click to expand...

Time for a Spector. :D
 
#46
Luckydog said:
Never had a jazz bass heard better in a mix than a p bass. Maybe right by the amp you hear some more highs, but out in the foh, the p bass kicks them in the gut. Flats or rounds, it doesnt matter in my opinion...the p bass simply pushes through like fat albert.
Click to expand...

I have had the exact opposite experience attending 1000's of shows....the one exception being if the bass player playing a P Bass plays with a pick. I've literally heard P Basses sound like indistinguishable mud in live settings on 100's of occasions with rock bands.

I've also heard them sound absolutely brilliant in the right context with jazz and funk bands.
 
#47
Hobobob said:
I got a graphic EQ a few months ago, and I haven't disappeared in a mix ever since. Those low mids are VERY important for bass, and with my 10-band graphic I can mess with a few other freq's to see where the trouble spots are and eliminate them.
Don't forget to talk to your guitarists tho. Their bass range is usually right where the power is in a bass' signal, so having them turn that down will give you a lot more room.
Click to expand...

Yes....this really could help quite a bit....
 
#48
25 year + of using P-Bass professionally in any kind of situation, including like yours. And I'm sure many professionals here feel the same.
Never have the problem like that, so it's obviously doesn't have to do with P-Bass as general.
And anyway, I think 'cut thru the mix' is often a term I don't understand. Bass sound doesn't have to cut thru the mix.
Quoting JimmyM, it's punching in the....
I forget :D

But as I often wrote, anyone is different. Maybe you just don't like it the way I do, or maybe you just don't feel P_Bass suits your needs in that situation now.
Although I think it might be matter of finding the right frequency and tonality etc. for your bass among that much of other frequencies.
 
#49
bluesdogblues said:
25 year + of using P-Bass professionally in any kind of situation, including like yours. And I'm sure many professionals here feel the same.
Never have the problem like that, so it's obviously doesn't have to do with P-Bass as general.
And anyway, I think 'cut thru the mix' is often a term I don't understand. Bass sound doesn't have to cut thru the mix.
Quoting JimmyM, it's punching in the....
I forget :D

But as I often wrote, anyone is different. Maybe you just don't like it the way I do, or maybe you just don't feel P_Bass suits your needs in that situation now.
Although I think it might be matter of finding the right frequency and tonality etc. for your bass among that much of other frequencies.
Click to expand...

Not dogging P-Basses....I have heard them sound better than any bass....and heard them sound like an indistinguishable piece of low end protoplasm. I have experienced the latter in live situations more so than the former....
 
#50
faulknersj said:
Not dogging P-Basses....I have heard them sound better than any bass....and heard them sound like an indistinguishable piece of low end protoplasm. I have experienced the latter in live situations more so than the former....
Click to expand...

Yea I understand :)
My taste for my own playing is P-Bass, but..
Me too sometimes got my jaw dropped by listening to other bass player with other bass other than P-Bass. and vie versa (there are some ignorable bass player even if they play P-Bass)..so there's too many factor, and for me, the most important is the player himself.
There are thousands of Fender P-Bass with their various setup in the world, played by thousand of various players with various habit, taste, experience etc
Tho I simply make two categories of the bass (P) : The good one and the not good one. And even the good one might sound failed in some circumstances.

Oh And I'd like to add that a bass player perception of his/her sound often not the same as the other people (producer, audience, bandmate etc).
Just maybe if that what's the OP experienced.

BTW one of my friend said jokingly to me that: if your bass can't be heard and nobody complained, it means you've successfully done your very expensive job as a paid musician LOL
 
#51
I have a Fender Precision and I always find that I have to adjust my tone - the first thing I do is listen to the players without me - if it sounds right, then it was my job to fit in. I tend to run my amp( Gallien Kruegar 250) settings (Bass- Treble- Volume) a little high, that way I can sort of control my mix with the volume & tone settings on my Bass. Just like every other band, after the first few songs, everyone has turned up - that's when I hit the mids- and it almost always the bass mid and I just crack that a little. But the other suggestion are all very good suggestions too - they help you become aware of the sonics of the electric bass - and aware of various room acoustics.
 
#53
Luckydog said:
Never had a jazz bass heard better in a mix than a p bass. Maybe right by the amp you hear some more highs, but out in the foh, the p bass kicks them in the gut. Flats or rounds, it doesnt matter in my opinion...the p bass simply pushes through like fat albert.
Click to expand...

I have, with the bridge pickup off. Also, with the pickups in series. I have a Jag. ;)
 
#55
Luckydog said:
Never had a jazz bass heard better in a mix than a p bass. Maybe right by the amp you hear some more highs, but out in the foh, the p bass kicks them in the gut. Flats or rounds, it doesnt matter in my opinion...the p bass simply pushes through like fat albert.
Click to expand...

faulknersj said:
I have had the exact opposite experience attending 1000's of shows....the one exception being if the bass player playing a P Bass plays with a pick. I've literally heard P Basses sound like indistinguishable mud in live settings on 100's of occasions with rock bands.

I've also heard them sound absolutely brilliant in the right context with jazz and funk bands.
Click to expand...

I'm with faulkner on this one.
 
#56
Essentially a bass should match the volume of the kick drum. As for a P bass it usually sits well rather than cuts thru a mix. No surprise that a jazz style bass cuts thru but what u are hearing is higher freq mids. It still won't have the heft of a P bass.

As many here have mentioned, your guitarists may have eqed in too much low mids or bass freq and need to dial out some. It may sound good playing solo but muddies up a band mix. Your P bass will serve you fine although u will need to dial in more mids to be heard. Cutting/scooping your mids will just drown you out further. A reduction or more controlled volume level will help too. Challenging each other for SPL space will just cause more room or stage level issues.
 
#59
With the addition of all the great and "must try" suggestions, emphasis seems to me needed on the guitarists; why do I have this feeling they are running with their individual "bedroom" tone? Perhaps, based the quick rig rundown I am coming to this conclusion, as at least the second guitarist with the half stack has at least two if not three speakers too many for his rig. (in an ideal world "I'll start using my combo amp that sounds different but just as good for our shows") Wouldn't THAT be a dream?
 

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