Absolutely correct. In fact, not using a rig that you know provides you with your (& the audience's) best sound (or at least the best sound you've found so far
) would be at a minimum, suspect.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
The Pros seem to favor mixed cabs
- Thread starter SouthTunnel
- Start date
Absolutely correct. In fact, not using a rig that you know provides you with your (& the audience's) best sound (or at least the best sound you've found so far
) would be at a minimum, suspect.
We have a disconnect.
My subjective opinions should not have to clash with your subjective opinions or experiances.
Different things work for different people.
All that said, if someone is running a stage rig mixing cabs doesnt do them any favors in having consistant on stage sound.
Well this discussion is in context to the OP at least. It says Pros favor mixed cabs. In reality most pros favor in ears now, and the cabs are basically an advertisement.
The reality I learned is on the road, my ideal tonal nirvana probably was not going to happen every night, and I needed to deal with that. lol.
The in ears actually became my favorite because playing in so many different rooms, you get the same tone every night. That is huge.
The reality I learned is on the road, my ideal tonal nirvana probably was not going to happen every night, and I needed to deal with that. lol.
The in ears actually became my favorite because playing in so many different rooms, you get the same tone every night. That is huge.
So I guess TB logic says that multiple driver IEM's have cancellation and need a crossover on each driver? Ok but where is the giant crossover on a IEM?
Multiple driver IEM's do have internal crossovers, as far as I know. My relatively high end Shure's indicate they do on the spec sheet.
Absolutely correct. In fact, not using a rig that you know provides you with your (& the audience's) best sound (or at least the best sound you've found so far
You missed the entire point.
A. The "sound" is almost always a Direct sound when you are on tour.
B. A good player sounds good though about anything.
C. CL4000 and I were talking more about stage monitoring than what the crowd hears out in front.
A.) Once again this depends. There are guys that go on tours that are pretty low budget, they use what works for them and that may or may not include IEM.
B.) yep!
C.) This goes back to the level of the show. There are lots of guys that dont get/use PA support for their shows. In the town that I live in, monitor support is almost nonexistent. The majority of "venues" dont even have their own PA, so in favor of time/portability the only thing going through the PA mains is vocals. The rest of the stage volume is what is carrying the house.
That may not be the way that everyone does it, but their situations might be different.
Let me tell you all something which may surprise you...if your cab is on, unless it is completely offstage or completely covered by plexiglas and you have no live mics whatsoever onstage, people in the crowd can hear it and you're living in a dream world if you think they can't.
How do I know this? If you get some extra time at a soundcheck sometime, try listening to your bass with the PA completely off, then try it with the PA completely on except for your DI. You will hear it in the PA, even if your onstage levels are as low as mine, and I don't know ANYONE who uses an amp onstage and has levels as low as mine.
How do I know this? If you get some extra time at a soundcheck sometime, try listening to your bass with the PA completely off, then try it with the PA completely on except for your DI. You will hear it in the PA, even if your onstage levels are as low as mine, and I don't know ANYONE who uses an amp onstage and has levels as low as mine.
Minor issue IMO. Yes, everything on stage bleeds a bit into the front of house. Not enough to really impact much, especially in a total mix.
To clarify, I was talking about national tours. We would not play a show without PA support.
Locally, smaller tours..etc..whole different game. You obviously need cabs with PA support., or you need your own PA which you can DI into. I see more bands doing this now.
Also, our stage volume was real low due to using in ears and running direct. It makes the sound guy real happy. He used (and many use) redboxes on the amps.
While the sound onstage does help..it is very minimal.
I played a venue that probably was 300 people max..my amp went out on stage. I kept playing..the singer panicked..I did not because I was DI'd into the PA. Not one person in the crowd noticed a volume drop in the bass, and I asked some of the label reps who have ears for that stuff after we were finished.
This is just another talkbass know's best since some here feel they know it all from what allot of real world bass player's do...that's all
interesting! So you advocate that a lack of knowledge is better? Are you proposing that the folk on this site who freely disseminate their hard learned knowledge are not "real world" musicians?
A lot of bass players don't know anything about the audio engineering that supports their craft. That includes many, many people who are earning a living though their playing.
Many who are not at that level, buy what ever bits of gear is available to them, within their budgets, on the used market. More than a few have connected stuff together inappropriately and damaged their entire setup. Should we all just sit here and let that happen ad infinitum? If so, what is the purpose of this and other similar sites??
<sigh> Sometimes I wonder why we all even bother!!!
Exactly. It really does not impact much if you have a pro soundman who knows what he is doing.
No fan of IEM's here either but I've only used them a few times, not enough to get used to. They are becoming standard for Pro tour guys though.
They feel like you're doing studio work with a bunch of people watching and lose some of the live "feeling". It puts up another barrier between percormer and audience and you have to become a bit more of a "stage actor" to get across that barrier and get feeling out to the audience. Being able to hear the other instruments naturally and having a real bass rig kicking you in the backside just feels more "real" and less like "acting" to me. Of course, that doesn't matter much if you're doing wallpaper music or are a general stick in the mud on stage anyway. I don't run around the room dancing on tables or anything but you should put some "show" in the show.
IMO, YMMV and all that.
And yes, a good player should sound good through whatever's there. Just may take a little more work in some situations than others.
They feel like you're doing studio work with a bunch of people watching and lose some of the live "feeling". It puts up another barrier between percormer and audience and you have to become a bit more of a "stage actor" to get across that barrier and get feeling out to the audience. Being able to hear the other instruments naturally and having a real bass rig kicking you in the backside just feels more "real" and less like "acting" to me. Of course, that doesn't matter much if you're doing wallpaper music or are a general stick in the mud on stage anyway. I don't run around the room dancing on tables or anything but you should put some "show" in the show.
IMO, YMMV and all that.
And yes, a good player should sound good through whatever's there. Just may take a little more work in some situations than others.
Well that all depends on the venue and the volume level out of the amp, doesn't it? I've seen soundguys just completely give up on trying to mix the bass into the PA at 2000+ shows because their amp was so loud and the bleed was so obtrusive.
Also, remember that most IEM's allow you to vary the amount of stage sound you hear, from total isolation to pretty wide open. The few guys that I know personally who play on major tours (Arena level) use IEM's with relatively open structure, with either a small amp at low volumes under the stage pointing up at them for 'feel', or else one of those 'earthquake/a**kicker/pleasure pump' (depending on the brand) units bolted to a plywood stand that allows them to 'feel' the bass. Pretty cool.
Lots of ways to skin this cat. While I love to play out of my own stuff (which like everyone else, I purchased to 'reproduce the sound in my head' as close as possible in the smallest, simplest way), and of course always do when there is no front of house, once we are playing through a big system, I don't even ask about what backline is being provided, and have never had a problem with any of the stuff provided (usually beat to heck SWR/Eden/Harke/GK stuff).
That is a different story for sure. That is more incompetence on the player's part, and I agree, is a bad thing all the way around. Total disrespect for the audience, the sound professional and band mates. Luckily, in my world, those types of guys last one gig and out.
For most of us, it is a zero issue (I would hope).
+1
That comes back to stage volume though.
I find that I'm cool with the stage volume up to the point of blending with the drummer. If I go louder than that trying to drive a room with the rig only, the bleed starts getting in the way and it starts to get like trying to mix the bass with 10 mics on the rig, all at varying distances and angles, some of them with a good dose of reverb in them. So, then it's time to back off a notch and stick a close mic on the bass rig.
You can't judge IEMs after a few uses and especially if they are done half - a##.
If done right, there are ambience mics, you mic your speaker and keep the volume low so you have bleed..etc.
I am not sure how many of you guys do studio work, but that would really rattle your cage. It is rare that you will be in the same room as your speaker cab and you very well will get DI'd and monitor yourself through phones or through the studio monitors.
If done right, there are ambience mics, you mic your speaker and keep the volume low so you have bleed..etc.
I am not sure how many of you guys do studio work, but that would really rattle your cage. It is rare that you will be in the same room as your speaker cab and you very well will get DI'd and monitor yourself through phones or through the studio monitors.
I'll tell you, though, Will and Ken...sometimes the player sounds perfect with the bass not going through the PA. There's been times I've been frustrated with my sound in the PA and just taken over the room and I'm glad I did. Not going through the PA doesn't always mean inferior sound. However, it DOES mean there's a possibility that you're still way too loud for the mix. I did a gig recently where another band was on the bill, and the mix was all bass, and the soundguy told me that it was all stage volume.
Which leads to my theory that the vast majority of bass players have no idea how loud they are out of their amps
Which leads to my theory that the vast majority of bass players have no idea how loud they are out of their amps
