Double Bass The Real Book

[Ed Fuqua]

I changed my name from Godsby quite awhile ago

Demi Godsby?

 

[Phil Smith]

Not for nothing Phil, but you do have a vested interest in coming down on the fake book side.

If you noticed I'm not making an argument for fake books.

 

[Treyzer]

@ John & Chris, Thanks for the great stories and insight.

 

[John Goldsby]

I'm making the point that the presence or non presence of charts doesn't diminish the performers ability to improvise or reflects their values on improvisation.

Case in point:

Phil, to re-phrase your statement above in the form of a question with fewer double negatives:

Does either the presence or absence of charts play a role in improving a performer's ability to improvise?

Or, I think the point you wanted to make in your post was more like: "Neither the presence nor absence of charts plays a role in increasing or decreasing a performer's ability to improvise."

Please correct me if I misunderstood.

Originally Posted by Phil Smith View Post
My point and the point others have made that it isn't "this" or "that".

I agree that it's not about *only* knowing lots of tunes from memory, or *only* being able to read music well. I strongly advocate practicing both areas.

The original poster (Troy) wrote seven years ago (!) that he was at a John Clayton workshop, and John suggested that he get rid of his fake books and learn a lot of standard tunes from memory. Seven years later, HDiddy wrote that he wanted to also memorize more standard repertoire and not rely on a Real Book (or other fake book) to get through standard tunes.

So this thread grew from desires of a couple of players who want to expand their repertoire.

I'm merely trying to encourage them, and anyone else who is motivated to learn a basic canon of standard jazz songs.

Phil, in the video you posted with Herbie and Chick, they play a CC arrangement of Malagueña. Herbie reads a chart, and they jam a little bit. If charts were helpful for improvising on the arrangement, then the other three musicians—Chick, John and Tom—would also have been using charts, right? But they weren't. If the presence of a chart really improved one's ability to improvise, then everyone would use charts on everything, all the time. Herbie was glancing at a chart because he didn't know the arrangement (it seemed). But, as many players demonstrate, if you know a tune well, then reading a chart on the tune over and over doesn't really help you improvise better.

Of course, if a player needs to read the chart because he's never played the tune, or it's a very complicated arrangement, or he hasn't played it in years, then he can also play musically while reading. That is a skill in itself.

If you noticed I'm not making an argument for fake books.

No, you're just making an argument.

But don't worry, I'll probably still buy your app one of these days I just have to get an i p a d first.

 

[Phil Smith]

In case you missed it, it is a long thread.

I've been to a couple of piano bass duet gigs at the Knickerbocker bar and grill on University Place in NYC and got an opportunity to see and hear Todd Coolman and Peter Washington up close, basically looking over their shoulder. Neither of these bassist used charts but the pianist on the gig did, the late Mulgrew Miller and a woman whose name I don't remember. On a number of tunes both bassist were playing off of the same chart and in some instances had places pointed out to them by the pianist.

I think we can all agree that you need to be able hear and you need to be able to navigate a chart playing something style appropriate if what to play isn't completely notated. The notion that everyone sounds not as "good" when playing with a chart in front of them or that the presence of the chart acts as some sort or "ear plug" is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I changed my name from Godsby quite awhile ago

I can see why you might do that. Sounds too much like "Rodby", and you wouldn't want people getting confused.

 

[damonsmith]

God couldn't get the bass chair of a German radio orchestra..

 

[TroyK]

Wow, my 7 year old thread is alive! So, my old, illegal Real Book has long since been destroyed. I do have several books of copyrighted leadsheets and charts, plus things like the Omni Book and method books in my practice room and I'm glad they are there. I try very hard not to use charts on gigs, but things get called that I don't know and people want me to play, so when I need something for a standard, I use it. Funny thing though, is breaking the habit makes me realize how little I actually need it, even if I don't know the song. Usually with a standard that I am familiar with, but don't know, either a glance at the changes and where the melody and bridge start or a couple of trips around the form and I'm good.

Both of the groups I play with regularly play a majority of band member compositions and we tend to have a fairly concise list of favorite standards and bop that we play, so I know THEM. The problem is when I sub with someone or get asked to host a jam session and ... well that's still a stretch for me, but not the stretch it used to be.

It's a long journey, but for me, it continues to be worth it.

 

[gerry grable]

+ 1 Right on.

I'm curious. How did my name get to be at the top of this post? I didn't write it and don't remember having re-sent it. I think it is John writing?