The search for tighter bass?

[CL400Peavey]

In my experience, moving from 15" cabs to 10s certainly tightened things up in the lows. My first 4x10 cab was a Crate (sealed), then I went to an Ampeg 8x10 (sealed), used a Peavey 410TX for a little while (ported and sounded GREAT, less punchy than sealed), now I'm back to two Ampeg 410HEN cabs. None have ever sounded "loose" in the low end, no matter what bass I was playing, or head I was powering them with. Power ranged from various black face and silver face Fender Bassman heads, Ampeg SVT, V2, V4, GK 400RB, various rack preamp/power amp rigs, and no telling what else I've forgotten.

Therefore, IMO it's all in the 10's. Preferably sealed cabs, at that.

But if you compair a JBL 15 to a Ampeg 410HLF, you get the opposite results. Each cab should be judged individually. Not based on its driver size.

 

[meatwad]

But if you compair a JBL 15 to a Ampeg 410HLF, you get the opposite results. Each cab should be judged individually. Not based on its driver size.

I can understand your point, as there are always exceptions to the rule. Still in general, 10s are tighter and punchier than 15s IMO & IME. YMMV, and all that. I hear 12s are doing wonderful things these days, also. But my previous post should reveal that I'm fairly old school, as are my opinions.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I can understand your point, as there are always exceptions to the rule. Still in general, 10s are tighter and punchier than 15s IMO & IME. YMMV, and all that. I hear 12s are doing wonderful things these days, also. But my previous post should reveal that I'm fairly old school, as are my opinions.

Driver technology has come a long way in the past 40 years. The superstitions you are holding on to have been revoked.

 

[bftbassman]

i just got a pf 500 & 115 he cab,couple quick observations that might help, i am in a similar situation, loud band and i need to cut but stay low at the same time, blessed to have bend members where we separate our frequency ranges to let the music breathe and believe it or not it actually gets heavier sounding that way than sheer volume.With the pf 500first thing i did was set flat eq and then very simply dialed in my tone, bass to 3 o clock and treble about the same and for the first time ever i put midrange past noon and got the Ampeg growl that cut..now what i did do was NOT use the compressor...that killed everything and squashed my tone immediately. I just played before going to work at low volume at home and at barely on the cab is tight, the HE is sealed and i def noticed a cutting with that cab on top of my Acoustic b200 combo which is a beast and loud amp and its ported, i feel i got the best of both worlds, run the ampeg into acoustic and ampeg sets the tone and cuts and the acoustic compliments with tight clear bottom. After many years of amps i found a powerful clear sound that is very portable and plenty of power. I dont have to push any amp hard and yesterday 3 strait hours of playing neither one was hot at all.

 

[danosix]

So I play a 4003 through a PF800 and two PF115LF's. I love the huge thick tone I get. So warm and manly.. But it seems like it's..slow.
I want huge low end since I play in a power trio jam band sort of thing and need to take up a lot of space and fill out the bottom but I also want definition. Sometimes my tone is a little slow and unresponsive.
I usually play with a lot of mids and cut just a little bass since my bass itself provides a baddy tone, slightly scooped tone.
I guess what I'm asking is: Is the PF800 a punchy amp or a warmer, slower amp? Same for the cabs.

I would try a flatter or even slightly "scooped" eq setting if you want more definition - as a rule with a good sounding bass (which you have) and amp (which you have) you should have to have such a drastic eq (4 notches between setting is a bit much). Also, remember if it sounds a little "clanky" soloed - it will likely sound a lot less so "out front" when mixed with the band.
If it really is "slow" you could try the BBE Sonic Stomp (Sonic Maximizer in a pedal) which does precisely what you want - it re-aligns the frequencies temporally so that the bass and treble hit the ear at the same time. They're like $150 but can be had for as little as $50 used.

 

[meatwad]

Driver technology has come a long way in the past 40 years. The superstitions you are holding on to have been revoked.

So, it's politically incorrect to judge a speaker by it's dimension? Then, why are there still 10s, 12s, 15s, 18s, ect? Surely their size still means something.

 

[CL400Peavey]

So, it's politically incorrect to judge a speaker by it's dimension? Then, why are there still 10s, 12s, 15s, 18s, ect? Surely their size still means something.

Consumer perception. Economy of design, including size and weight trade offs, or sensitivity goals.

If size had a large impact on tone, then there would only be 3-4 speakers produced. 10's would all sound like 10's, and the same would go for 12's, 15's, and 18's. This is systematically not the case.

 

[jm5string]

I find cutting the lows as well as the lower mids (around 200-to 300) while raising the uppermids around 900- to 2000. Then cut the highs back just a little. Mud builds up pretty easy in the lower mids.

 

[Timmah]

If I were the OP, I'd try a set of Rotosound 66 stainless steel strings. They growl, cut, and have a nice tight low end that solved a lot of my problems. I would also recommend bringing the gain on your amp up to the point where the red clip light blinks on when you really dig in. As for the compressor, I haven't had a chance to play with one, but some light compression couldn't hurt.

Adding some dirt in pedal form is also really effective for filling out a trio sound (see: Allen Woody) but that's a whole different discussion.

 

[wellshuxley]

You might be better served by adding a more flexible compressor to your signal chain. I also play a Ric through an Ampeg rig and I've found that Rics sound much "tighter" when you use a compressor with a slower attack and a faster release. This allows the attack to come through at full volume, but the compressor kicks in after the attack has been fully articulated and de-emphasizes (or "cleans up") the sustained part of each note. This style of compression brings the attack out front and results in a much tighter/faster sound.

I use a pedal compressor so I can turn it on with these settings for passages that require tighter articulation and disengage it when I want to let the bass get all bloomy and boomy.

 

[meatwad]

That's cool. I still say my SVT fridge will punch your neo-efficient 12/8/1 jambox in the face, and walk away with your lunch money.



j/k

 

[CL400Peavey]

That's cool. I still say my SVT fridge will punch your neo-efficient 12/8/1 jambox in the face, and walk away with your lunch money.



j/k

Thats cute.

Thing is, my Link Removed. Curb stomping 810's is their game.

 

[danosix]

+1 on use the comp it will tighten things up considerably and allow you to "push" the frequencies you want.
Having thought on the problem since my last post - the whole pf series may be wrong for you as they seem to be (based on the number of guys hwo have vintage ones and like these) voiced similar to the old ones - just with a lot more power and they are "slow" sounding.
Having said that - a lot of "fat/flubby-ness" is in the mids so I stand by my flat or scooped eq recommendation.

 

[alexclaber]

We make a variety of cabs with two different custom drivers nowadays - one range with 12" drivers, one range with 10" drivers. The 12" drivers are tighter sounding and punchier than the 10" drivers. And I've heard plenty of 10" (and 8") loaded cabs which were less tight sounding than the 15" cabs we used to make.

 

[CL400Peavey]

We make a variety of cabs with two different custom drivers nowadays - one range with 12" drivers, one range with 10" drivers. The 12" drivers are tighter sounding and punchier than the 10" drivers. And I've heard plenty of 10" (and 8") loaded cabs which were less tight sounding than the 15" cabs we used to make.

Exactly.

Even if you limit to one diameter, say 12", you have a slew of guitar drivers, a large number of bass drivers, and some dedicated sub woofers. They all sound different.

 

[meatwad]

Thats cute.

Thing is, my Link Removed. Curb stomping 810's is their game.

Thanks, you just made me appreciate my amp even more. That thing looks big and awkward, to say the least. But hey, I'm sure she has a wonderful personality.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Thanks, you just made me appreciate my amp even more. That thing looks big and awkward, to say the least. But hey, I'm sure she has a wonderful personality.

Weighs about what one of your 410's does, and is smaller than an 810.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I would try a flatter or even slightly "scooped" eq setting if you want more definition

Haven't we all learned our lessons about scooping?

If it really is "slow" you could try the BBE Sonic Stomp (Sonic Maximizer in a pedal) which does precisely what you want - it re-aligns the frequencies temporally so that the bass and treble hit the ear at the same time. They're like $150 but can be had for as little as $50 used.

Snake oil. Waves travel at the same speed regardless of frequency. The long waves arrive at your ears at the same time as the short waves. Check with the physicists on this of you are in doubt. PA and expensive Hi-Fi systems use time delays to insure that tops and subs align with themselves and with the back-line due to their offset physical placement, but those signals are already separate. The Sonic Stomp uses phase shifting of the low and mid bands to create a very creative and customized type of wave cancellation, AKA destructive interference or comb filtering. Some like it, some do not, it's an aesthetic thing, not any sort of time or speed alignment.

This is really simple issue. If the bottom seems flabby and you can't seem to cut through, do the following:
- Close off one port to add more mechanical damping to the cone.
- Use a HPF3 or similar.
- Try to boos the mids via EQ. If your ability to boost mids is around the 500Hz area, it ain't gonna do it. You need to be around 800. A switchable/sweepable mid is great for this.
- Use brighter strings, preferrably ss rounds.

 

[ric4682]

I know that drivers don't decide tone. It just seems that with most conventional cabs the ones with 10's happen to be designed to be a little tighter than ones with 15's. Not because of speaker size, but in conjunction with speaker size.

 

[danosix]

Haven't we all learned our lessons about scooping?


Snake oil. Waves travel at the same speed regardless of frequency. The lows arrive at your ears at the same time as the highs. Check with the physicists on this of you are in doubt. PA and expensive Hi-Fi systems use time delays to insure that tops and subs align with themselves and with the back-line due to their offset physical placement, but those signals are already separate. The Sonic Stomp uses phase shifting of the low and mid bands to create a very creative and customized type of wave cancellation, AKA destructive interference or comb filtering. Some like it, some do not, it's an aesthetic thing, not any sort of time or speed alignment.

This is really simple issue. If the bottom seems flabby and you can't seem to cut through, do the following:
- Close off one port to add more mechanical damping to the cone.
- Use a HPF3 or similar.
- Try, to boos the mids via EQ.
- Use brighter strings, preferrably ss rounds.

Okay - change my quote to "psycho-acoustically" and the response stands - it'll sound more "right" to the ear - and yes many people do dispute the validity of this - on the other hand at least ONE of the thousands of top pro studios that use them on RECORDINGS must know what they are doing.