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The Songwriting Mega Thread

Discuss all things songwriting here, TB has a vast knowledge let's see if we can apply that knowledge to song writing.

Any style, any instrument, this is where TB songwriters can discuss. Show your music here, ask for advice,

I will break the ice here with the generic but always relevant

What is your songwriting process?

Please feel free to add any discussion as long as it's song writing related.
 
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Anyway I can get it.

Really. I've had them come in as a thought, from an instrument (some I have no business messing with), a sound in the air, a random riff a band member stumbled on while no one was listening, a single word, a thought out story, a melody that some how pops up. Sometimes just picking up an instrument and just making up some nonsense.

Music first, drum beat first, lyrics first, content or subject matter first, however.

I am very strict with my vocabulary though. I will not use the same key words or standouts more than once. Same thing with the subject matter or topic.

A capo can hold many new songs inside. Same said for effects

Basically no boundaries.
 
If music first, what kind of words are you using while singing your new song, motive, etc. without the lyrics?
I just wait. Eventually if I continue to play the music or record it and listen to it enough, a vocal melody will pop up (Usually in the form of humming). Sometimes there is a particular word that just fits the space and that can end up being a spring board for the rest of the lyrics.

There has also been times where a song has gone 10 years or more with no lyrics or melody and somebody else or new hears it and bingo they are inspired and they have found the missing parts in their head for me. Those situations are very cool and justify why I even held on to the song idea for so long.

Back to the music side of songwriting. During the composition stage if I'm stumped on what should happen next I always do the opposite of what naturally comes to mind. I try and right songs that sound new/fresh.
 
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I often get little ideas like a riff or lyrical phrase in my head that I might mess with a few hours or so. If I don't have a guitar around, I find something to write down some words and chords as quick as I can, maybe put something on my phone voice recorder, and then come back to it later with a guitar when I have time. Usually, I have to spend some time with it initially before it really catches hold, though. Very rarely do I find ideas to use when I go back through them if they don't at least have some complete hook, verse, or chorus.

Out of laziness, sometimes I don't write or record anything, and it's gone later in the day. However, I've also found that if something doesn't come back to me easily a few days later, then maybe it wasn't that great to begin with. Songs that I finish are rarely ones I had to record anything before I would consider it done enough.

I will say that the songs I write tend not to be very complex, and I do have a tendency to repeat myself. It feels a little self-defeating at times, but the reality is that so few people are going to hear my songs, anyway, much less care if they notice something sounds like anything I wrote previously.

A professor in a songwriting class I took years ago would always say to start with lyrics, then build music to it. Sometimes that works, but starting from a riff, and imagining sounds of words that fit has worked just as well for me. I do find that if I can get a hook with some lyrical content together roughly in the same time frame then it tends to go further than either way alone.

Over the years I have tried to be more systematic and consistent. But I have so many hobbies I cycle through that I kind of have to just go with it when inspiration hits, and hope that I can get enough done with when I initially work on it to either stay motivated to finish it, or feel inspired enough to finish it if and when I go back to it later. Some of what I would consider my best songs were ones I wrote in a day, as well as ones I farted around with for several years.

One thing I should do more of is treating songs as their own entity, stay with them until they are absolutely polished and done before performing or recording them. Same for producing - I rarely go back and re-record or produce a song I've already tracked and mixed. I should really take the next step, get into a studio, hire a real singer, and make some decent demos. At that point the return of investment is a gamble, though, and a risk I'm generally not inclined to take. Music is my hobby, but not my only one.
 
When I write alone, I usually write the Lyrics and melody at the same time while play either guitar or bass. Sometimes I write the lyrics and melody without playing along and figure the instruments out later. Sometimes I pick a topic before I start, but most of the time I come up with a verse or chorus before I come up with a topic.

If I write with other people, I don't really have a method.
 
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One thing I do not do is sit down with the intentions on writing a song.

I don't, either. But I have heard other songwriters talk about their approach to songwriting like that of authors - dedicating time to writing, even if there is no muse or specific idea they are trying to flesh out. I'm inclined to believe that is a good approach, if only because I think it makes helps keep you primed to be in tune to inspiration, as well as be more effective and efficient when it does hit. It takes a lot of discipline and dedication, though. More than I have. I also have other endeavors I could just as well apply the same discipline to. But I have to balance things out for mine and my family's sanity.

Jackson Browne is one songwriter known to work like this. I'm sure there are countless other examples.
 
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I just wait. Eventually if I continue to play the music or record it and listen to it enough, a vocal melody will pop up (Usually in the form of humming). Sometimes there is a particular word that just fits the space and that can end up being a spring board for the rest of the lyrics.

Thanks for your response.
Many years ago, somehow I, just an amateur bass player, worked on a project to write quite a few pop songs for young (16 - 19 years old) - singers/dancers.
I needed to concoct, arrange, program, and record one song a week in order to give that song to the dancers to start learning it while a POET/lyricist was crafting the lyrics.
I wanted to sing a melody (instead of humming or playing on the piano) even with my terrible and ugly voice, and for that reason, I used a mixture of some fragments of Indo-European language while "speaking in tongues".
P.S. That's why I disagree that a SONG is a result of 50/50 between the composer and the lyricist.
 
Out of laziness, sometimes I don't write or record anything, and it's gone later in the day. However, I've also found that if something doesn't come back to me easily a few days later, then maybe it wasn't that great to begin with. Songs that I finish are rarely ones I had to record anything before I would consider it done enough.

My most important rule of the thumb: Always record whatever you compose. Don't let any of your ideas to disappear.

A professor in a songwriting class I took years ago would always say to start with lyrics, then build music to it.

I've tried that method in the past - to start with lyrics, but I COMPLETELY FAILED.

Over the years I have tried to be more systematic and consistent. But I have so many hobbies I cycle through that I kind of have to just go with it when inspiration hits, and hope that I can get enough done with when I initially work on it to either stay motivated to finish it, or feel inspired enough to finish it if and when I go back to it later. Some of what I would consider my best songs were ones I wrote in a day, as well as ones I farted around with for several years.

When I was writing for myself that "cooked-to-perfection" song, I could never finish it. Always some improvement, more embellishing, etc...
When it was like my "job", I knew precisely that every Monday morning my Boss would present his ideas about a new song to me, and I would spent the rest of the day creating a drum/rhythm pattern, and start producing some ideas/"carcass" of a new song. Tuesday after lunch, my Boss would either approve or revise my new song's melody, ideas, vision, etc...
Wednesday before lunch, I'd show to my Boss my, more or less, complete song - melody, harmonic background programmed with the rhythm section - the drums, bass, rhythm guitar, and/or keyboard.
Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday morning - programming the whole accompaniment, and Friday lunch time leaving for the studio to start recording.
 
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I find I don't have a strict formula, words can come first sometimes music can it all depends on when inspiration hits. I try and collect and record ideas whenever I can. Of course it is not always the case, hard to tell your boss you gotta go home to record ideas. But I try and keep in mind inspiration will come and go.

I do find when I make the music first the direction of the song takes form faster. I know when riffing what the genre will be and where it may go. When starting with words I make them then add the chords and make the melody but I find it can change more. It's like building a modular home than throwing it onto a foundation where making music first is like building from the foundation up.

At the end of the day I try and collect all my ideas so I have a collection components. Then I go back look at what I have stored then put it together. I will admit it's a very scattered approach but for someone like me who doesn't get many blocks of time to write it works really well. So when I do get time to record or work on a song I have the parts ready. Sometimes it can work against me if my ADD takes control.
 
You guys let me know when you've figured out how to summon up those incredible songs you write while dreaming.

I did this for a while when working on lucid dreaming exercises. Hasn't happened in a while. I also feel that I have perfect pitch when asleep (not awake). I've dreamt a tune in F# minor for example, seen a few bars of sheet music, and then woke up to go to the piano and the notes were indeed in that key. This 'skill' is far inferior to the mind of Bela Bartol who could write and visualize sheet music while awake that was so vivid that he would just copy it vertically onto a score page
 
What is your songwriting process?

Depends drastically on what is going on at the time. Some songs seem best on specific instruments and I have written on piano, bass, guitar, and abstractly using sheet music and imagination. Sometimes lyrics first but more often melody first.

I like jazz fusion and improvisation so many times I will write with a band in mind that can jam through instrumental sections or entire tunes, but I've also written vocal-oriented pieces where even a single solo might be more than necessary.

I also like jamming with a band, recording the jam and then adopting a full-fledged song from the results. This is great for group-oriented music.

This song "Failure" was a result of that jamming process. The band reworked the lyrics a long way from the original concept which was a joke about musical equipment that failed to comply and turned it into something deeper.


This song "Stigmata" is an example of the kind of stuff I write on bass. Most people would leave a chords-and-tapping thing as a Stu Hamm type bass ditty, but to me it's just like playing piano: I still want to hear a melody. So I wrote the lyrics, verses and chord progressions and the guitarist wrote the jammy intro and guitar counter-melodies.

 
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How do I write songs? Something from the bag o' riffs will stick, I'll add a second part, then a third... and before long, I'm diving into the folders full of lyrics I've written over the years to see what feels right. Or I"ll write new words. Then drum and keyboard programming, some attempted guitar and bass in ProTools and... new demo!
 
I also like jamming with a band, recording the jam and then adopting a full-fledged song from the results. This is great for group-oriented music.

Interesting music.

How do you set a chord progression (for a new song) and/or form (for a new song) while jamming with the band?
I've tried to write a song (MELODY) with the band but it was impossible to compromise and achieve some kind of result, but...
When you have some melody with harmony, a rhythmic foundation/rhythmic pattern, a form of the song,
then a good band/good musicians (and "diplomatic" ones) could help drastically improve your song.

I'm diving into the folders full of lyrics I've written over the years to see what feels right. Or I"ll write new words

You are just a very gifted Musician. If I tried to come up with some lyrics, I would bog down indefinitely.
 
Interesting music.

How do you set a chord progression (for a new song) and/or form (for a new song) while jamming with the band?
I've tried to write a song (MELODY) with the band but it was impossible to compromise and achieve some kind of result, but...
When you have some melody with harmony, a rhythmic foundation/rhythmic pattern, a form of the song,
then a good band/good musicians (and "diplomatic" ones) could help drastically improve your song.



You are just a very gifted Musician. If I tried to come up with some lyrics, I would bog down indefinitely.
I started writing lyrics (poems or lyrics, depending on the rhyme scheme and meter and so on) before I started playing music. I just wanted to combine two of my favorite things.