The Songwriting Mega Thread

[Ace Of Bass]

For me, usually pieces of a song pop in my head, usually a melody that grabs me and random lyrics that end up getting edited...the chord progression gets worked out on the Rhodes most of the time and the. The song goes into production in Studio One...most of the time nowadays, however, I end up in a collaboration with one of the guys I play with and am mostly in charge of the melody and lyrics and co-production (of course the bass line)...

 

[Kragnorak]

I'm still a terrible lyricist though.

It's difficult if you're comparing your work to Peter Sinfield!

 

[Kragnorak]

1. Plan a theme ("I love butterflies") and/or musical style (1920s jazz) I want to rip off.
2. Follow with weeks of procrastinating and reiterating themes and styles ideas.
3. Finally grab an instrument and mindlessly play chords/notes with total disregard of musical theory (start on fifth fret, then second, then 8th, 1st fret, and then open chord).
4. Spend more time figuring out which effects and amp simulators sound the best in awesome because I'm too lazy to figure out the bestest ways to mic my amps using a $20 mic... $10 (it was on sale).
5. End up recording the usual dissonant funk/metal which means pentatonic-scale slap bass and palm-muting chords on an over-distorted guitar.
6. Mix all the instruments, while using earbuds, with every free VST effect I don't understand simultaneously burying everything.
7. Plan on writing lyrics and recording the greatest vocals including 7-part harmonies, never do it, and realize that the last time I thought about the recording was 5 years ago.
8. Remember I still love butterflies and 1920s jazz.
9. Buy more equipment in preparation of my next recording session.
10. Go on Talkbass instead.

The alternate method is do everything in MIDI with "close enough" sounding (free) SoundFonts, with the same idea of "I'll replace that fake guitar with a live recording." Then realize what I did in MIDI is something I cannot recreate due to my own talent or that it's actually physically impossible on a real instrument.

I also forgot: Put everything on Soundcloud for posterity, and rarely promote it. Join a Cover Band instead (and rarely promote that either).

Honestly, I do like composing, I just don't finish anything.

Hmm, I haven't gotten deep into recording at home because my demo process is too close to this!

 

[Orengery]

Some great advice here.
One of my questions about the music process - when working alone, how do you manage to mix it all up? Just for noodling and finding new ideas, not for the final recording. I try and use a looper to record a bass line, some chords on a guitar and a basic drum pattern, but a loop is obviously repetitive and annoying at some point.
Any other methods?

 

[JimmyM]

Some great advice here.
One of my questions about the music process - when working alone, how do you manage to mix it all up? Just for noodling and finding new ideas, not for the final recording. I try and use a looper to record a bass line, some chords on a guitar and a basic drum pattern, but a loop is obviously repetitive and annoying at some point.
Any other methods?

I pick up a guitar and play.

 

[bahia0019]

1. Plan a theme ("I love butterflies") and/or musical style (1920s jazz) I want to rip off.
2. Follow with weeks of procrastinating and reiterating themes and styles ideas.
3. Finally grab an instrument and mindlessly play chords/notes with total disregard of musical theory (start on fifth fret, then second, then 8th, 1st fret, and then open chord).
4. Spend more time figuring out which effects and amp simulators sound the best in awesome because I'm too lazy to figure out the bestest ways to mic my amps using a $20 mic... $10 (it was on sale).
5. End up recording the usual dissonant funk/metal which means pentatonic-scale slap bass and palm-muting chords on an over-distorted guitar.
6. Mix all the instruments, while using earbuds, with every free VST effect I don't understand simultaneously burying everything.
7. Plan on writing lyrics and recording the greatest vocals including 7-part harmonies, never do it, and realize that the last time I thought about the recording was 5 years ago.
8. Remember I still love butterflies and 1920s jazz.
9. Buy more equipment in preparation of my next recording session.
10. Go on Talkbass instead.

The alternate method is do everything in MIDI with "close enough" sounding (free) SoundFonts, with the same idea of "I'll replace that fake guitar with a live recording." Then realize what I did in MIDI is something I cannot recreate due to my own talent or that it's actually physically impossible on a real instrument.

I also forgot: Put everything on Soundcloud for posterity, and rarely promote it. Join a Cover Band instead (and rarely promote that either).

Honestly, I do like composing, I just don't finish anything.

This is EXACTLY what I do!!! Must be cause we're San Diegans.

 

[bahia0019]

I am very happy this thread was started.
Just the other day I was asking, why in a website full of musicians, weren't there any forums on MUSIC?

 

[Mattrill]

I write the songs in my band as well as my guitarist.


My band Hazy Days has been together 2 years now and is all of our first band (my drummer is my best mates little brother and started playing the drums when we started the band). Since then we have a set list of about 50 minutes to play live, all originals (& loads of more material just not ready to play live yet) except one cover: You Can't Do That by The Beatles, we plan on getting some more covers in the beef the setlist up to about 1/30, 2 hours.


When I first picked up bass when I was 16 I learnt all the songs of my favorite bands but began making some of my own music. As I grew a musician I really wanted to get into a band but unsure of how to do it. When I was 18 my best mate said there was a guitarist at his work who was looking to join a band and he's favorite band is The Beatles (who are mine). 20 now and in 2 years I feel we have accomplished a great deal.


In the first year we just had fun, teaching my drummer about rhythm as he has never played an instrument (which could be frustrating but it was worth it in the end!) me and my guitarist just playing about with some chords. Second year came around and we had some material, and my guitarist just brought a mic to start singing with and I gave it ago as well. Not understanding how bloody hard it is to sing and play bass!! It was really frustrating at first and to the point where I almost gave up singing because I felt it was stopping me learning on the bass. However I stuck with it and persevered and I can actually do it. You literally have to split your brain in two

. I sing on mostly all of our songs, lead vocals, backing etc. My guitarist writes really nice songs as well which is why we have such a collection of songs so soon. It’s really funny when you sing as well, no one will complement you on your ability to play your instrument. Only on your voice!!


My methods of writing.


Sometimes I freestyle on the mic with a melody in my head making the words up (Big inspirations from Hip Hop scene). Early on I had to write the songs on guitar because it was really hard for my guitarist to play the chords around the bass line (since then I understand the theory a lot more behind a bass line so I can tell my guitarist the chords). I write lyrics out at work all day so if I write a song at home I can take some from my ‘lyric book’ I have at work. My guitarist will write a song, then I will make the bassline to it what I hear in my head. When playing on the bass ill just play something that sounds good to me, then I’ll try make it into a song.


I think that the best thing about bass is that you have so much power with the melody. And I am at the point in my playing where I can play what I hear in my head.


Sorry for the essay, but I love speaking about writing songs, and felt that was needed!

But here’s my last paragraph! I owe everything to The Beatles. They helped me sing, gave me the confidence and I have taken many inspiration from them and I always try to write a song that people will find catchy and enjoy, sad or happy. I want to release an album of my band’s music of about 8 tracks for the first album. I am saving to get the recording gear to record and produce myself and believe that this will be done in about 2 years. We’ve recorded maybe 6 months ago just as a birthday present for my drummer, it a pleasant recording but not something I was willing to publish on my Facebook page etc. I want the band to grow and develop more before we publish music.

Great thread started here J

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Once the song is written and arranged I put it into finally if I know the phrasing of the arrangement.

Are you playing or singing your melody, "once the song is written"?
You have not said anything about the lyrics.

P.S. I have noticed a few interesting things in this thread.

1. The majority of the commentators prefer the lyrics first, not the MUSIC.
I'm just wondering if at some "poet society" forum, the lyricists prefer the MUSIC first, and the lyrics later.

2. So far, I'm the only one who's trying to sing a melody/phrase/motive in some "speaking-in-tongues" verbal concoction.

I just steal ideas from all the other music I listen to.

Just don't become very popular, otherwise...

Also, quite a few TB members talked about "bits and pieces" (old and new ones) used to "stitch" a song. For some reason, I tend to experience some lack of melodic/harmonic/rhythmic, etc... continuity/logical continuity while using that method, not only in my but in some other, well-known songs.
Yes, it could be useful/very useful when used with caution, IMHO.

P.S. So far nobody stressed out the importance of song's FORM.
Again, it's only my humble opinion.

 

[bahia0019]

P.S. So far nobody stressed out the importance of song's FORM.
Again, it's only my humble opinion.

All you need to know about song form, you can learn from Dave Grohl...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

All you need to know about song form, you can learn from Dave Grohl...

Thank you for your recommendation.
I'm going to add Dave to the ever-growing "poet society" lyricist.

Sorry, no help for me from Dave.

 

[Mattrill]

Thank you for your recommendation.
I'm going to add Dave to the ever-growing "poet society" lyricist.

Sorry, no help for me from Dave.

Great vid - seen Tenacious D live and they we're awesome, not to mention I loved TD at that time! Missed out on seeing Foo's after they canceled their Wembely Stadium tour last year, gutted about that one

 

[Whousedtoplay]

But here’s my last paragraph! I owe everything to The Beatles. They helped me sing, gave me the confidence and I have taken many inspiration from them and I always try to write a song that people will find catchy and enjoy, sad or happy. I want to release an album of my band’s music of about 8 tracks for the first album.

Do you have any songs to show to us?

 

[whatizitman]

Some great advice here.
One of my questions about the music process - when working alone, how do you manage to mix it all up? Just for noodling and finding new ideas, not for the final recording. I try and use a looper to record a bass line, some chords on a guitar and a basic drum pattern, but a loop is obviously repetitive and annoying at some point.
Any other methods?

I pick up a guitar and play.

Yup. For most pop styles you need a polyphonic instrument to write basic progressions and melodies. Not a hard and fast rule, but more helpful than not. I tend not to figure out drum patterns, or even basslines, until the song has some structure to it. Making multitrack recordings based only on riff ideas or for noodling is highly inefficient, IMO. Songs can definitely be built around bass riffs, or maybe even loops. But you need the immediacy and polyphonic ability of a piano or guitar to flesh out rough ideas. I rarely record anything with a DAW/multitrack until a song is at least a complete draft. A good rule of thumb for me is that if I feel a song is more or less ready to play at an open mic with nothing but an acoustic guitar, then it's ok to start messing with basslines and drum patterns. Granted, that works well for the type of music I write. But I think it applies to most pop styles.

 

[Mattrill]

Do you have any songs to show to us?

Hey, sure I'll post them when I'm home. Just on my way home from work at the moment.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

A good rule of thumb for me is that if I feel a song is more or less ready to play at an open mic with nothing but an acoustic guitar,

The same question.
How are you showing the MELODY of your newly written song?
Are you singing?
What about the lyrics?

 

[whatizitman]

P.S. I have noticed a few interesting things in this thread.

...............

2. So far, I'm the only one who's trying to sing a melody/phrase/motive in some "speaking-in-tongues" verbal concoction.

Idaknow. I wouldn't consider it anything so formalized, but I do tend to keep a running line of sounds in my head when working on melodies and chord patterns that I would like to eventually replace with lyrics - preferably something similar to the sounds. Lyrics are about sound and feel as much as content. Sometimes more so. Hello, Beatles fans? "Come Together"?

I rarely say them out loud, I guess. Maybe I should try that. Soon I will have more creative space in my house where I can do such things with less worry about being heard. LOL.

P.S. So far nobody stressed out the importance of song's FORM.

Form as in structure? AABA, etc...? I tend to stick with some variation on ABABCB, and to a lesser extent AABA, just cuz that's what the vast majority of popular songwriting tends to fit, and thus where my ear goes.

 

[whatizitman]

The same question.
How are you showing the MELODY of your newly written song?
Are you singing?
What about the lyrics?

Yeah. I mean playing and singing the song. The lyrics/singing tend to best showcase the melody in my songs, as I think they do in most popular song styles. If a song can stand on its own with just me playing and singing on an acoustic guitar, then I consider it more or less ready to be produced or arranged for other instruments.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Form as in structure? AABA, etc...? I tend to stick with some variation on ABABCB, and to a lesser extent AABA,

Yes, as a start. For me, the song's form/structure also, includes bars/measures in Verse, in Chorus, Bridge, etc., and the development of the song and its comping background - layering/adding more lines, sounds, guitar/piano/sax solo, etc...

The lyrics/singing tend to best showcase the melody in my songs, as I think they do in most popular song styles.

So far, I'm the only one who tries to sing in some "speaking-in-tonques" language as
"the fluid vocalizing of speech-like syllables that lack any readily comprehended meaning."

 

[Whousedtoplay]

the chord progression gets worked out on the Rhodes most of the time and the. The song goes into production in Studio One

I love the Rhodes sound. It's an excellent sound for ballads, slow songs, but...
IMHO, new times could call for new sounds.
Also, anytime I've tried to "write" a fast/rhythmic song by playing on the piano/keyboard without a rhythmic background, I used to cram too many chords/substitutions without any "breathing" space.