The Songwriting Mega Thread

[Whousedtoplay]

Some great advice here.
One of my questions about the music process - when working alone, how do you manage to mix it all up? Just for noodling and finding new ideas, not for the final recording.
Any other methods?

With a very few exceptions - it's a ballad, it's a slow song, or just no possibility to produce a drum pattern - I always work on the rhythm first. I mean the rhythm as programming the drum pattern first, usually a 2-bar pattern, and start looping it. Also for me, programming the drums means finding that "unique" kick/snare, hi-hat, etc... sound, that could seriously affect my vision of the song's groove.
Next, I find a sound/tone for my keyboard (IMHO, the tone/sound of the instrument produces your Musical motive/Phrase). When I find that "WOW" sound (or just an interesting tone) for my keyboard, I just let the drums play and I start my "journey" to the Sound land - just start playing and "singing-in-tongues" for a long time in order to get rid of any LOGICAL mental thoughts, of any "But what if...", etc., just the world of "subconsciousness".
Anyway, it's only my personal amateur approach to a songwriting process.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Hey, these are the 3 we got recorded back some months ago. Hopefully they give you an idea of our sound. I think we will be ready to properly record in about 2 years, which will give my drummer time to develop his skills more and us as band to let the songs expand. Recently though he has been doing really well and learning new beats. It was all our first time in the studio so we didn't really know what to expect but thats the out come.

I am singing lead on Surfer Song and Seven Days (all the songs begin with S lol), probably going to change the name of Seven Days to something different.

The song called Sunshine is something I made a couple weeks ago with big inspirations from the man himself Bob Marley. Wrote the bassline for it and really loved it so wanted to see what it sounded like with drums and guitar. Recorded it with a preset drum track on Garageband and then dubbed the guitars and bass. That definitely a song i'd like my band to cover. We only a 3 piece tho so the lead/ rhythm will be sacrificed at some point

Well, hope you enjoy guys, go easy on me!

I really enjoyed listening to your songs.
All your songs are melodious, very "stylish", have mood and character.
Also, I liked to your voice timbre.
Overall, very good!
Thanks for posting them.

 

[ImNotJoel]

I write the songs in my band as well as my guitarist.


My band Hazy Days has been together 2 years now and is all of our first band (my drummer is my best mates little brother and started playing the drums when we started the band). Since then we have a set list of about 50 minutes to play live, all originals (& loads of more material just not ready to play live yet) except one cover: You Can't Do That by The Beatles, we plan on getting some more covers in the beef the setlist up to about 1/30, 2 hours.


When I first picked up bass when I was 16 I learnt all the songs of my favorite bands but began making some of my own music. As I grew a musician I really wanted to get into a band but unsure of how to do it. When I was 18 my best mate said there was a guitarist at his work who was looking to join a band and he's favorite band is The Beatles (who are mine). 20 now and in 2 years I feel we have accomplished a great deal.


In the first year we just had fun, teaching my drummer about rhythm as he has never played an instrument (which could be frustrating but it was worth it in the end!) me and my guitarist just playing about with some chords. Second year came around and we had some material, and my guitarist just brought a mic to start singing with and I gave it ago as well. Not understanding how bloody hard it is to sing and play bass!! It was really frustrating at first and to the point where I almost gave up singing because I felt it was stopping me learning on the bass. However I stuck with it and persevered and I can actually do it. You literally have to split your brain in two View attachment 771862. I sing on mostly all of our songs, lead vocals, backing etc. My guitarist writes really nice songs as well which is why we have such a collection of songs so soon. It’s really funny when you sing as well, no one will complement you on your ability to play your instrument. Only on your voice!!


My methods of writing.


Sometimes I freestyle on the mic with a melody in my head making the words up (Big inspirations from Hip Hop scene). Early on I had to write the songs on guitar because it was really hard for my guitarist to play the chords around the bass line (since then I understand the theory a lot more behind a bass line so I can tell my guitarist the chords). I write lyrics out at work all day so if I write a song at home I can take some from my ‘lyric book’ I have at work. My guitarist will write a song, then I will make the bassline to it what I hear in my head. When playing on the bass ill just play something that sounds good to me, then I’ll try make it into a song.


I think that the best thing about bass is that you have so much power with the melody. And I am at the point in my playing where I can play what I hear in my head.


Sorry for the essay, but I love speaking about writing songs, and felt that was needed!

But here’s my last paragraph! I owe everything to The Beatles. They helped me sing, gave me the confidence and I have taken many inspiration from them and I always try to write a song that people will find catchy and enjoy, sad or happy. I want to release an album of my band’s music of about 8 tracks for the first album. I am saving to get the recording gear to record and produce myself and believe that this will be done in about 2 years. We’ve recorded maybe 6 months ago just as a birthday present for my drummer, it a pleasant recording but not something I was willing to publish on my Facebook page etc. I want the band to grow and develop more before we publish music.

Great thread started here J

Thanks, I think it's been way past due and with all the knowledge TB has I am surprised there isn't a sub category or a mega thread already.

Thanks TB songwriters for showing up and contributing I was really worried this thread would die fast and I would have to (dun dun dunnnn) look elsewhere to discuss songwriting.

Keep contributing and feel free to add anything else. I am loving this thread! We got some talent here now I wish I had more time to write! Let's hope I hit the powerball!

 

[Mattrill]

I really enjoyed listening to your songs.
All your songs are melodious, very "stylish", have mood and character.
Also, I liked to your voice timbre.
Overall, very good!
Thanks for posting them.

Thank you very much. Your comments are much appreciated . Glad you enjoyed them.

Thanks, I think it's been way past due and with all the knowledge TB has I am surprised there isn't a sub category or a mega thread already.

Thanks TB songwriters for showing up and contributing I was really worried this thread would die fast and I would have to (dun dun dunnnn) look elsewhere to discuss songwriting.

Keep contributing and feel free to add anything else. I am loving this thread! We got some talent here now I wish I had more time to write! Let's hope I hit the powerball!

I am loving this thread too! Thanks for starting it.

I'd love to share with you our song titles from our set list at the moment which will probably be the 8 songs for the album:

Surfer Song
Campervan Blues
You Can't Do That - Beatles Cover
Make My Day
Banjo Lagoon
Seven Days (want to change the name)
Man In The Sand
Sitting By A River
Another Day

We like writing songs about adventure and and love songs (thanks Beatles!).

I've got starting lyrics to the song I linked called 'Sunshine'

Let's take a trip to the sunshine,
Oh girl you make me feel high
Lets go for a ride,
A ride into the sky

Got other ideas for some lyrics, but those above are set in stone at the moment, I like them

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Got other ideas for some lyrics, but those above are set in stone at the moment, I like them

Is it difficult for you to write the lyrics for a song?

 

[basslayer]

Are you playing or singing your melody, "once the song is written"?
You have not said anything about the lyrics.

P.S. I have noticed a few interesting things in this thread.

1. The majority of the commentators prefer the lyrics first, not the MUSIC.
I'm just wondering if at some "poet society" forum, the lyricists prefer the MUSIC first, and the lyrics later.

2. So far, I'm the only one who's trying to sing a melody/phrase/motive in some "speaking-in-tongues" verbal concoction.



Just don't become very popular, otherwise...

Also, quite a few TB members talked about "bits and pieces" (old and new ones) used to "stitch" a song. For some reason, I tend to experience some lack of melodic/harmonic/rhythmic, etc... continuity/logical continuity while using that method, not only in my but in some other, well-known songs.
Yes, it could be useful/very useful when used with caution, IMHO.

P.S. So far nobody stressed out the importance of song's FORM.
Again, it's only my humble opinion.

If the song is written, that includes the melody. I start lyrics with a theme usually. Sometimes I take poems and convert them to lyrics. If it's a narrative then I do an outline of the plot. Sometimes I start with lyrics. Sometimes the lyrics are there last part constructed. I have some lyrics that only is a chorus that needs verses. Sometimes it's there inverse. The process for me is marked by an openness to inspiration from any musical space.

 

[DaDrew2112]

A professor in a songwriting class I took years ago would always say to start with lyrics, then build music to it. Sometimes that works, but starting from a riff, and imagining sounds of words that fit has worked just as well for me. I do find that if I can get a hook with some lyrical content together roughly in the same time frame then it tends to go further than either way alone.

I definitely start with riffs close to half of the time. The words just come. Sometimes I'll start with a melody, generally with words. The words are important but what I go for is something sonically exhilarating. I want is to pump you up or make you pause and soak in some tones. Either way the idea is not so much for you to analyze my deep lyrics but for you to appreciate the song as a whole.

In other words...I'm not exactly satisfied with my lyrical content all the time but I hold it to a lesser importance in the grand scheme of things. Some songs I've really loved and never even knew what the words were. It's just another instrument to me.

 

[Ace Of Bass]

I love the Rhodes sound. It's an excellent sound for ballads, slow songs, but...
IMHO, new times could call for new sounds.
Also, anytime I've tried to "write" a fast/rhythmic song by playing on the piano/keyboard without a rhythmic background, I used to cram too many chords/substitutions without any "breathing" space.

Totally agree...I however, don't own a keyboard anymore...I just use the Rhodes to work out my chord progressions because I don't play guitar...

 

[Mattrill]

Is it difficult for you to write the lyrics for a song?
Here is one of my songs without the lyrics (just "singing-in-tongues" some words) recorded about 25 years ago. I had it on an old tape but with Audacity's help, I was able to convert it into the mp3. file.
The quality is not good.

In the song, I've tried to make a duet; therefore, I asked my very good friend (who's never sung on stage, only in the Music Conservatory) - a highly educated PRO Musician/keyboard player (he helped me to record a lot of songs) who later became, IMHO, a Superb Composer, the top-20 World arranger, a PRO sound engineer, etc...

This recording was supposed to be given to a poet to write lyrics.

The soft voice in the intro - my friend's, the nasty, ugly, and out-of-tune voice in Verse - it's me.

Yes, I CANNOT sing! It's terrible(!) - I KNOW IT, it's my stigma; therefore, please don't waste your time criticizing my vocal disaster.
This recording was done just for the lyricist ONLY (!) not for any public view, but that was 25 years ago.


P.S. As always, I will clean up my mess shortly.

It can be difficult, sometimes I write the lyrics really quickly, sometimes It takes longer. One of our songs 'Banjo Lagoon' has a 12 bar blues part in it and I wrote the lyrics during my lunch break (I'll post just the first half). I always find 12 bar blues fun to write lyrics to and can finish lyrics to them quite quick:

Open your eyes,
And look up to the sky
Because theres clouds in the air
They're running wild up there

I've got my surf board by my side
And we're riding the waves tonight
Down in the Lagoon,
The Banjo Lagoon


If I/ we, write a song we really like I will dedicate my time to writing lyrics for it, then as the song grows we look to see if we can improve the lyrics or parts of the song. So to answer 'Is it difficult for you to write the lyrics for a song?' Not really, but I don't want to sound big headed as thats not my personality at all, but for some reason life has given me the ability to write lyrics - hopefully people will enjoy them as well when we record the album.

Before I ever took up an instrument I used to have 'Rap Battles' with friends making rhymes and lyrics up on the spot (usually trying to make fun of each other) and I used to be quite good at it - guess that foreshadowed my ability to write songs . I also remember I have always sung in the shower made up stuff but I never thought that I would actually end up singing in my band! Life can be weird.

As for your song, I dig the musicianship behind it! The drop is real funky and had me tapping my feet . Your voice sounds a lot like John Frusciante's in some of his solo stuff as well as the music - I think the album might be Letur Lefr. I haven't listened to it in a real long time but John was definitely who came to mind when I heard that track. But thanks for sharing with me - again much appreciated and cool to listen to someones tracks from 25 years ago, on the other side of the planet .
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[Mattrill]

Anyways, this thread has kept me up past the bed time! Look forward to checking this out tomorrow. Good night all

 

[ImNotJoel]

Please everyone feel free to keep discussing you're song writing process or any questions or info it's all good stuff.

I just wanted to throw out a couple weeks of other great topics.

Dealing with the dreaded writers block.

Song structures like verse refrain, coda, etc.

The two demons of song writer over complicating songs or over simplifying.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Your voice sounds a lot like John Frusciante's in some of his solo stuff as well as the music - I think the album might be Letur Lefr. I haven't listened to it in a real long time but John was definitely who came to mind when I heard that track.

Wow. Somehow in 1991 I was channeling John Frusciante's 2012 album.
It's not good.

The drop is real funky and had me tapping my feet

I thought the song (a sad one ) was more about melody/harmony (some pent-up emotion that broke loose.)

some reason life has given me the ability to write lyrics

Lucky you. As I've mentioned numerous times in this thread, I cannot create lyrics on the spot; therefore, in order NOT to hinder my "flow of subconscious" stream of "cacaphonic" sounds, I just use the "speaking-in-tongues" language.
What's more for me, the Sound, Music, Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, etc... comes before the Lyrics.
If the lyrics could enhance the song's emotional texture and are easy to sing - I LOVE IT; otherwise,
I hear the Sound, Music, Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, Mood, Character, etc... of the song FIRST, and I'm DO NOT HAVE ANY issues with that.

I remember, two years, ago I posted a video with superb musicians
(Bass : Stanley Clarke, Piano : Hiromi Uehara, Drums : Lenny White)
playing their instrumental version of "Under the bridge" by RHCP, and I WAS ATTACKED here at TB for praising it because the instrumental/Jazzy rendition "did not" capture the song's lyrics' spirit.
Anyway, for me the Music comes first (unless it's some kind of JOB, ORDER) before the lyrics, but after the MELODY/harmony is done, then
I start paying SERIOUS attention to the song's lyrics.

 

[rtslinger]

I am a pretty prolific songwriter I have been writing songs since I was 10 years old I have hundreds of copyrights. I have little trouble coming up with lyrics and melodies and write songs in different styles
metal, blues, pop hard rock. My writing is of things happening around me or just off the wall stuff off the top of my head metal songs especial have to come from a place you haven't been but want listeners to enjoy the ride in your story. I use many metaphors in my songs to get point across. Also my rhymes are far from bat, hat, fat my thesaurus was my best friend and help me to take my lyric writing to another level.

 

[Mattrill]

Wow. Somehow in 1991 I was channeling John Frusciante's 2012 album.
It's not good.


I thought the song (a sad one ) was more about melody/harmony (some pent-up emotion that broke loose.)



Lucky you. As I've mentioned numerous times in this thread, I cannot create lyrics on the spot; therefore, in order NOT to hinder my "flow of subconscious" stream of "cacaphonic" sounds, I just use the "speaking-in-tongues" language.
What's more for me, the Sound, Music, Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, etc... comes before the Lyrics.
If the lyrics could enhance the song's emotional texture and are easy to sing - I LOVE IT; otherwise,
I hear the Sound, Music, Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, Mood, Character, etc... of the song FIRST, and I'm DO NOT HAVE ANY issues with that.

I remember, two years, ago I posted a video with superb musicians
(Bass : Stanley Clarke, Piano : Hiromi Uehara, Drums : Lenny White)
playing their instrumental version of "Under the bridge" by RHCP, and I WAS ATTACKED here at TB for praising it because the instrumental/Jazzy rendition "did not" capture the song's lyrics' spirit.
Anyway, for me the Music comes first (unless it's some kind of JOB, ORDER) before the lyrics, but after the MELODY/harmony is done, then
I start paying SERIOUS attention to the song's lyrics.

I hope I haven't offended. I think I used the term funky too loosely there - I will have another listen tonight (but I did find it made me tap my feet ) - but I did enjoy it nonetheless. I might get shot in the foot here but some people have made a career out of a bad voice. Take the lead singer in Bombay Bicycle Club - I think his voice sucks but it works in his music. If you type in bad singers Bob Dylan comes up (I can't criticize as I've never listened to him) and isn't he a prophet of the 60's? Believe in yourself more, singing is real fun when you get into it, being covers or originals

Thanks - I am lucky and I really appreciate it.

'What's more for me, the Sound, Music, Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, etc... comes before the Lyrics' - Great shout here. This is the same as me. I always listen to the music in front on the lyrics. And have always found myself doing it. You're not alone . If I ever hear a song for the first time it is the musicianship I behind the words I listen too.

Since songwriting though, I do pay attention to the melody the voice a lot more and how the voice can be the songs winner to success. John Lennon is a master at this. He makes me crave his voice in some songs and the way he sings certain bits.

It's funny, I played a gig for my friends 20th on Saturday with my band and a lot of my friends who had never seen my play, let alone sing were there. All of them were like 'Omg, I didn't know you could sing!' However not one of them complemented my bass playing, only my voice! I think to people that don't play instruments (not everyone), they hear all the music together but the voice is the thing they listen to the most, unlike musicians who pull everything apart

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I hope I haven't offended.

You whaaaat?!!!




It's OK, I just need to stop using my "Time Traveling Machine" and "licking" from the distant future music.
(P.S. Sorry for my sarcasm.)


Now.
I'm a very strong advocate of a uniquely-recognized CHARACTERISTIC voice timbre that could be easily discerned among millions of other voices. The singer's Voice as the messenger of the song's Mood, Character, Style, etc...
Let's say, your voice timbre has a lot of UNIQUELY-interesting qualities. It's a big PLUS.
I tend to separate into two groups the SINGING MUSICIANS who write their own songs and sing it,
and the SUPERB but just SINGERS with beautiful voices.

Another important to me detail in a songwriting process.
It's the song's MOOD, FEEL, character that is a must for me.
Your song has IT. Your band has IT.
By listening to your songs I felt like as went back in time to those melodiously- prolific "a la Beatlesque" years with all those songs' chord progression/harmony and melodic contour.

Now, with all those time accumulated "musical influences/additives", it's sounds really "fresh" and unique.

they hear all the music together but the voice is the thing they listen to the most, unlike musicians who pull everything apart

You are so right. The regular listeners they don't put under the microscope the song's rhythm pattern, chord progression, chord substitutes, etc...
They just take the final product and either enjoy it or no.

P.S. If you want to be noticed as a bass player, become a "flashy extravaganza" like Flea.

Anyway, I sense a lot of potential in your songs. Don't let your creativity get "rusty".

 

[Orengery]

Whousedtoplay, I REALLY LIKED your song!!
It sounded really proggy and complex, I wish I could compose like that... sounded like an old Pink Floyd song with Dream Theater influences.
Everything I compose turns out either boring, or weird when I try to make it more interesting.
Anyway, good job and keep going!

 

[rtslinger]

I know one thing for sure my chord progressions that I started using later on in my writing though still rocking heavy metal power chords were not your everyday chords
I had a 14 chord buildup intro thing we did when we first took the stage before we launched into our set it used minor chords, Major, sus2, m7, augm7, augm, min7b5 it was in 3/4 time, tempo 124 bpm bass was 1/4 note triplets played over power chords gave us time to fill the stage with fog from the dry ice machines. My guitarist loved it because it was a difficult to play and it just kicked butt

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Whousedtoplay, I REALLY LIKED your song!!
It sounded really proggy and complex, I wish I could compose like that... sounded like an old Pink Floyd song with Dream Theater influences.

Thank you.
My Boss also noticed that the song was "too complex" and "too slow" for our young - 16/18 years old - dancers/singers; therefore, he asked me to get back to some simple and faster Pop songs.

I was OK with me because my job/project required at least one song a week.
Within one week, I needed -
1.) to concoct some melody (an easy thing for me),
2.) to arrange and program all the comping instruments into the sequencer (it was difficult for me, an amateur bass player),
and
3.) to record my vocal/melody for the poet to write some lyrics.

Everything I compose turns out either boring, or weird when I try to make it more interesting.

IMHO, you are probably way too critical about your songs.
I would say, record your songs and don't listen to them for some time. Let your brain forget about it.
After a break, your brain would accept your own songs as somebody else's songs, and it would allow you to evaluate your songs more objectively.

 

[ImNotJoel]

Thank you.
My Boss also noticed that the song was "too complex" and "too slow" for our young - 16/18 years old - dancers/singers; therefore, he asked me to get back to some simple and faster Pop songs.

I was OK with me because my job/project required at least one song a week.
Within one week, I needed -
1.) to concoct some melody (an easy thing for me),
2.) to arrange and program all the comping instruments into the sequencer (it was difficult for me, an amateur bass player),
and
3.) to record my vocal/melody for the poet to write some lyrics.




IMHO, you are probably way too critical about your songs.
I would say, record your songs and don't listen to them for some time. Let your brain forget about it.
After a break, your brain would accept your own songs as somebody else's songs, and it would allow you to evaluate your songs more objectively.

Excellent advice

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I use many metaphors in my songs to get point across.

Just a question.
I should assume that your lyrics are in English.
How should interpret your songs a person who does not understand/speak English?