Yup, apples and oranges. Sashimi is basically a tube overdrive with germanium clipping diodes, Tarantula uses germanium transistors to generate the fuzz and uses the tube sections to make it nastier.
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The Sushi Box FX Secret Society
- Thread starter kranahan
- Start date
Do y'all have any suggestions for where to look for vintage tubes? Or what to look for in terms of quality and sonic fitness? Tube rolling sounds like fun!
Here's my free .02 on preamp tube rolling, worth every cent it costs. Many will disagree with me and I'm OK with that. Just my opinion....
1)Cork sniffing different preamp tubes, precisely as you assert, "sounds like fun", but can also be needlessly expensive.
2)The main differences are between types of tubes (12ax7 vs 12 au7 vs 12at7, etc etc), because each type has a different gain factor. Those with lower gain factors stay cleaner for longer as input signal increases. I believe there is real benefit to rolling different tube TYPES in Sushi boxes because that can substantially change how a given pedal responds.
3)Although 2 tubes of the same type (say 12ax7) can sound slightly different, these differences are minor at best, even trivial. I do not believe any listener can reliably, consistently and blindly (=using only ears) distinguish between 2 tubes of the same type, since the input signal shape and strength have a far greater impact on OD and after all, there's always eq in the chain that is orders of magnitude more powerful/ significant than any freq response differences between tubes. That said, many wax poetic about the magic of this or that tube. Predictably, there seems to be more worship of older, rarer, more expensive tubes. I don't buy it. I have a shoe box filled with many preamp tubes of several types, from vintage to new. I have my faves for use in different pedals, but I won't pretend I could tell the difference without looking, and I'd wager heavy cash others could not, either.
So, I'd recommend getting a few tubes of different TYPES that are Sushi compatible and playing around with them, keeping within a small budget that you consider to be "expendable play money" in the context of your means, and not expecting night/day differences. I have bought from several eBay sellers that provide some credible testing info and have a substantial number of reviews. I have also got a few pleasing deals on batches of cheaper old tubes that fetch lower prices because they only test "good" and are not NOS and/or do not test near new specs. Preamp tubes can last for many years, unlike power tubes, so don't get too caught up in searching for "like new" tubes. I avoid Reverb for tubes. Then use your ears to decide. Ideally, make some recordings. We humans predictably like to convince ourselves that whatever we just bought is amazing. That bias is powerful....often much more powerful than objective logic. When evaluating anything, the more our bias can be eliminated, the more "real" the results. Also remember that unless you have a tube tester and a reputation for reliability, a used tube will not retain value if resold by you.
Happy rolling.
Thanks! This is exactly the sage advice I was hoping for! I've played around a very little with a Kustom The Defender, which is a pretty simple platform to make mistakes on, but I don't know much. There's such an aura around vintage tubes (and corresponding price tag) that it can be a little intimidating knowing where to dive-in. I'll start small and try to develop my tube palate before I get into the vintage bottlings.
Really good advice, I agree, much more noticeable (and worthwhile) difference between tube types than worrying about the specific make etc of tube.
I've bought a few NOS tubes of different types to try in a couple of pedals, mostly because they were similar prices to brand new tubes and they looked a bit nicer.
Can I tell the difference between the NOS and new tubes? just about, if I sit and listen with headphones etc, could this be my own bias? definitely. Would I spend lots of money on some 'magic' vintage tube? absolutely not. Once the tube is of a sufficient minimum standard then I really think the returns diminish hugely.
However, trying out everything from a 12AU7, AT, AY, AX, 5751 etc is far more fun and really can change how the pedal sounds and feels, and for a total outlay of about £60 I've been able to find a bunch of tubes that I really like in their respective new homes.
I have read that the plate size can make a difference, if you have 2 12AX7 tubes and the plates are long and short there might be a difference.
I think that means the metal mesh in the tube that you can see, you can get some that are longer or shorter.
I have never checked this out and it might just be another myth on the internet that is bull fertilizer.
I think that means the metal mesh in the tube that you can see, you can get some that are longer or shorter.
I have never checked this out and it might just be another myth on the internet that is bull fertilizer.
From my sushirolling experience I'll add that it can be cheaper to try out old stock for less "desirable" preamp tubes. E.g., you can easily find pairs of 12AU7 or 12AT7 that will work fine for <$20 on reverb. But for preamp tubes with higher demand (e.g., the cheapest old stock 5751s I see at a glance are $60-70 each) it makes more sense to get a new JJ there. I've had a bunch of fun trying out different types in my UA.
I'll stick this picture in again to help guide tube rolling:
I used that gauge in combination with this:
www.tubedepot.com
And to start to tease out more of the difference between tube types, I tried to read and compare within a single brand - i.e. comparing different JJ ECC8_ / 12A_7 tubes.
I have a 12AT7 in my Finally V2 right now, and it's great - I can crank up the gain to about 2 o'clock to get lots of clean saturation before it starts to break up, but the option is still there to add some grit if I want to push it past 3 o'clock.
Analog In
Need vacuum tubes? Want to build your own amplifier? Have an unhealthy HiFi obsession? We've got you covered.
www.tubedepot.com
And to start to tease out more of the difference between tube types, I tried to read and compare within a single brand - i.e. comparing different JJ ECC8_ / 12A_7 tubes.
I have a 12AT7 in my Finally V2 right now, and it's great - I can crank up the gain to about 2 o'clock to get lots of clean saturation before it starts to break up, but the option is still there to add some grit if I want to push it past 3 o'clock.
Is the volume drop noticeable from the 12ax7 with the 12at7? I'm normally using my Finally v2 with gain at 9 o'clock and volume at 3 o'clock for reference.I used that gauge in combination with this:
Analog In
Need vacuum tubes? Want to build your own amplifier? Have an unhealthy HiFi obsession? We've got you covered.
And to start to tease out more of the difference between tube types, I tried to read and compare within a single brand - i.e. comparing different JJ ECC8_ / 12A_7 tubes.
I have a 12AT7 in my Finally V2 right now, and it's great - I can crank up the gain to about 2 o'clock to get lots of clean saturation before it starts to break up, but the option is still there to add some grit if I want to push it past 3 o'clock.
@jmmyoh I can't say - Nathan was kind enough to package my Finally with the 12AT7 and I haven't done a tube roll myself yet, but I will say there's so much volume on tap.
With the gain at 2 o'clock I'm able to hit unity output with the volume just below 9 o'clock.
I picked out the 12AT7 because I wanted it to to have some distortion, but not get as gnarly as the 12AX7
I think you'd notice a little bit of a volume drop to the 12at, but unless you'd already turned the internal trimmers up to full you'd be able to get to the same level by just turning them up a little higher.
I changed from a 12ax to an au, but I found that was a little too quiet to drive my power amp and I couldn't get to the edge of breakup type sound I wanted. The 12at hits the spot perfectly for me, loads of volume available, enough tune warmth and drive if needed, but just an awesome sound.
It probably will be noticeable, since it was quite obvious even going to a 5751 (from 12AX7 in both UA and LU), but as has been mentioned, there is more than enough sweep on the volume and gain pots to compensate for any drop.
Yes but you can use the internal trim pot to account for it if needed, and, IMHO, the finer sweep of the gain knob is well worth it. With my UA and tonestack bypassed (i.e., basically a finally) I have both gain and volume around noon to 1:00 with a 12AT7 for just the right amount of grit without real breakup. 12AU7 was the same volume setting but with the gain knob maxed for a similarish sound. This is with a passive p bass for context.
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Also note that it will sound different, even accounting for the gain, which is the main point with lower gain tube in the "For Bass" version.
Personally I prefer the generally more articulate, some would claim harsher, sound of a 12XA7 tube though.
(note though that I am no tube expert, and I might be imagining things here. I would like if someone with actual knowledge could confirm the validity or the opposite of this claim/assumption)
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Probably late November/early December.
On a wildly unrelated note, this is an incredible pairing for those that impulsively buy shiny things. I have other things I'm supposed to be doing, but I'm here doing what I want to be doing.
This is genius and the obvious progression. I may be late to the party but very excited to see where things go with sushi fx.
