My Finally and Underground Accelerator are definitely here to stay! I might get the empress bass eq at some point just to eq any trouble spots in different venues but ultimately just the HPF on the finally do most eq fixes you’d ever need.
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The Sushi Box FX Secret Society
- Thread starter kranahan
- Start date
As I’m starting to play with the Venus Z, I got some noobie questions (maybe @Sushi Box FX can help):
- is the 1/4” out volume a gain stage before or after the EQ/HPF?
- I noticed that I can break up if I push the 1/4” out volume at 2:00 or more but not at XLR out at max volume - so is there a different chain for the DI?
- out of curiosity, I opened the case to check the tube: an ECC83S - hotter than the 12AX7?
- I noticed there is a switch near it. What is it for?
I’m using a passive precision going thru the Venus and then into a Quilter 800 (passive in or XLR in).
Tks
- is the 1/4” out volume a gain stage before or after the EQ/HPF?
- I noticed that I can break up if I push the 1/4” out volume at 2:00 or more but not at XLR out at max volume - so is there a different chain for the DI?
- out of curiosity, I opened the case to check the tube: an ECC83S - hotter than the 12AX7?
- I noticed there is a switch near it. What is it for?
I’m using a passive precision going thru the Venus and then into a Quilter 800 (passive in or XLR in).
Tks
If you're thinking about a troubleshooting eq, I'd recommend looking into the tech21 Q Strip.
It's a really versatile tool, with an XLR out, hpf and lpf, two semi parametric mids, it often travels in my gig bag as a backup for a range of situations.
The ECC83S is the same tube as a 12AX7, also known as a 7025 in some places.
Different countries / continents just had different names for the same thing.
If you look up ECC83S at JJ tubes they show all the names for the same tubes.
JJ Electronic - ECC83S - 12AX7, 7025
JJ Electronic - Vacuum tubes, Capacitors, Amplifiers
I think back when tubes were still being mass-produced by major manufacturers, there was some distinction. In particular (from memory) a 7025 was a low-noise variant of 12AX7, more suitable for high gain and high fidelity. That's why, for example, old Fender schematics may have 7025 for first stage preamp tubes but 12AX7 somewhere else.
These days, there probably isn't much difference. We have to be thankful we can still get new tubes at all.
These days, there probably isn't much difference. We have to be thankful we can still get new tubes at all.
You're correct, 12BH7 will take twice as much heater current as a 12A*7 family tube. I wouldn't really recommend it in my pedals, especially since it won't likely fit. The only place I've used 12BH7 is as a power stage for a headphone amplifier, but they did that very well.
1) The 1/4" volume control is not a gain stage, it is a passive control like in a tube amplifier. But there is a gainstage in between the EQ/HPF and the volume control.
2) The 1/4" output has a high-voltage MOSFET buffer that the XLR output does not have, so what's actually happening there is that the tube is pushing the MOSFET into drive. The D.I. transformer in the XLR signal path is going to be much harder to saturate.
3) As noted above, ECC83S is the same as 12AX7, just the European marking for it as JJ tubes are made in Slovakia.
4) If you're referring to the internal switch on the circuit board, that's an attenuation switch. If it's not loud enough for you, like if you're trying to directly drive a power amp or something, you can flip the switch up to get a hotter output.
Yep! Many tubes/valves were made to the same design under different names in the US/Europe.
Some quick examples off the top of my head:
12AX7 = ECC83, 5751 = CV4004, 12AU7 = ECC82 and CV491
And many tubes had equivalent/compatible designs that were made to slightly different specifications for various industrial uses.
For example, 7025, 12AD7, and 12DT7 were all just low-noise 12AX7s used for hi-fi, medical, and other sensitive equipment.
Yeah, modern manufactured tubes play pretty fast and loose with some of these older tube designations. For example, I'd expect a modern-made "7025" to be the exact same as that manufacturer's regular 12AX7, maybe just tested and selected to be the quietest 10% or so from each manufacturing batch... maybe
Even back in the day, manufacturers would often play fast and loose with labeling and designations. For example, I have a vintage tube labeled as a GE 7025, but the internals and glass markings are clearly a 1960's Blackburn Mullard ECC83 (12AX7).
Jack
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What a coincidence! An old SushiBox Black Eye is what I use my GE-labeled 1960's Mullard ECC83 in!
Jack
My Finally v3 has a 12AX7. First of all it's ridiculously loud. Level is at 9 o'clock and no more. Gain is also tricky to manage. It goes from tube warmth a 1 o'clock to farting at 2.
(This is going into a Rumble 100 with Gain at 50%.)
I'm considering swapping in a 5751 because I still want grit (reason why I aksed Nathan for the 12AX7) but it needs to be more manageable, and I read that the 5751 has a better tone than the 12AT7.
Tube swapping is certainly a rabbit hole. 
I have tons of old and newer tubes laying around. My background is mainly a full-tube amp player for almost 35 yrs, so when not using a tube amp, I still want x-amount of tube character in what ever I'm using, or on my ampless gig.
My Finally V1 came with a 12AX7, and a 1957 Sylvania 12AU7 is absolutely a wonderful wooly tone with the right amount of hair.
The Lab Rat with the 3-way clip toggle I recently got had a 12AX7, I wanted a bluesy break-up to mild distortion. Bunch of trials, and a JJ ECC81/12AT7 was so close but still too harsh, then I found a long plate EHX 12AT7 and it was perfect! The diode toggle setting lets me push and pull for the amount of drive to distortion I want. So cool.
I'm really suprised this pedal isn't being made anymore.
My More is different. I tried a few higher gain tubes on the input side, but kept getting a squishy and buzzy tone. I thought I found The One with a vintage GE 6072 (12AY7), but a week later it sounded squishy and buzzy as well.
For the past two months now I have Sylvania 1959 12AU7, and Sylvania 1968 12AT7 in there and it sounds great and very full with glassy character thru my Mesa class d amp. It's now the closest sound I've gotten to my old Walkabouts.
So yes, tube swapping different gain factor tubes can get different results, but long plate and short plate also go another step in this madness.
I have tons of old and newer tubes laying around. My background is mainly a full-tube amp player for almost 35 yrs, so when not using a tube amp, I still want x-amount of tube character in what ever I'm using, or on my ampless gig.
My Finally V1 came with a 12AX7, and a 1957 Sylvania 12AU7 is absolutely a wonderful wooly tone with the right amount of hair.
The Lab Rat with the 3-way clip toggle I recently got had a 12AX7, I wanted a bluesy break-up to mild distortion. Bunch of trials, and a JJ ECC81/12AT7 was so close but still too harsh, then I found a long plate EHX 12AT7 and it was perfect! The diode toggle setting lets me push and pull for the amount of drive to distortion I want. So cool.
I'm really suprised this pedal isn't being made anymore.
My More is different. I tried a few higher gain tubes on the input side, but kept getting a squishy and buzzy tone. I thought I found The One with a vintage GE 6072 (12AY7), but a week later it sounded squishy and buzzy as well.
For the past two months now I have Sylvania 1959 12AU7, and Sylvania 1968 12AT7 in there and it sounds great and very full with glassy character thru my Mesa class d amp. It's now the closest sound I've gotten to my old Walkabouts.
So yes, tube swapping different gain factor tubes can get different results, but long plate and short plate also go another step in this madness.
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I definitely prefer long plates. I swapped out tubes in my PF50T from short plates to long plates, and put a NOS 12DW7 in V1, and that thing sounds so darn good now. Short plates are too compressed imo, but being an upright player as well as electric I have a bias against compression perhaps.
When I did a limited amount of tube rolling in my UA, the tube that ended up in it was a JJ ECC803 long plate. That's kind of funny because I've tried that long plate in a few other pieces of gear (most recently, my Arkham Zephyr) and didn't like it. It wasn't a big difference from the original ECC83S, but I still liked it better.
Monday seems like as good a time as any to let everyone know this will probably be the last run of Black Eye II, so I have disabled backordering for them. I have a dozen or so in stock, but once they're gone I'm thinking I'll just let them be gone. Black Eye II remains my favorite bass distortion I've ever played, but I recognize it's one of those things not everybody needs, and the sales of them have been the lowest of any pedal I make. I'm always looking to add more models to the lineup, but it only makes sense that I also start clearing out other things.
Just had my board ending with a Finally v3 plugged into my Darkglass Element for some silent practice.
The board was powered by a Cioks and the Element was powered by wall wart. Both were plugged into the same power strip.
Was getting a harsh buzzing noise with this setup anytime I was running signal through the Finally (wasn’t there with the switch on Dry pass). While troubleshooting I noticed that the noise was inaudible if I had the level knob fully CW or CCW on the Finally (switch on Pre).
Tried the ground lift on the Finally and changing basses and had the same problem. The noise disappeared when I powered the Darkglass from the Noble’s 9v out instead of wall wart.
Any ideas as to why?
The board was powered by a Cioks and the Element was powered by wall wart. Both were plugged into the same power strip.
Was getting a harsh buzzing noise with this setup anytime I was running signal through the Finally (wasn’t there with the switch on Dry pass). While troubleshooting I noticed that the noise was inaudible if I had the level knob fully CW or CCW on the Finally (switch on Pre).
Tried the ground lift on the Finally and changing basses and had the same problem. The noise disappeared when I powered the Darkglass from the Noble’s 9v out instead of wall wart.
Any ideas as to why?
Hmm, what was the wall wart? Did it come with the Element, or is it from somewhere else?
I'm not familiar with the Element so an ignorant question: were you using the Finally's XLR output? Or the 1/4"?
Just a standard OneSpot 9v without the daisy chain. I was going out of the 1/4" into the Element.
Thank you so much for the recommendation! My Finally V3 now sports a 5751 and I am much more satisfied with what I hear. To my ears it is a warmer sound with a little more body, pleasant growl and compression that still retains the wonderful added overtones. The level knob has to be handled with care to get to unity gain, but to be honest it is not that much worse than with the stock valve.
