The Sushi Box FX Secret Society

[macmanlou]

or "Encore"

 

[lomo]

......Epilogue....

It sounds like a great pedal, but I prefer my HPF to be placed at or near the beginning of my signal chain.....why put undesirable frequencies through compression and effect pedal(s)????? I'd love to add a Finally....but if/when I do, it'll be last in my chain. This is obviously a zero issue if the tube DI is the only pedal in use.

 

[XLunacy]

"Final cut" ?

 

[jaibeau]

I demoed a “more” going straight into my Mesa 800+ (Trying to get some tube warmth) but didn’t really hear anything significant. Almost as if the tubes weren’t even active.. Do any of you pros know if the space heater “gain” would get more out of the tube? Thanks.

also, I’m used to seeing tubes glow, this more pedal tubes had zero glow to it, not even much heat… but the led was glowing. Was using a one spot 9v power supply as well which has plenty of Ma.
Thoughts??

 

[Mr. Business]

I demoed a “more” going straight into my Mesa 800+ (Trying to get some tube warmth) but didn’t really hear anything significant. Almost as if the tubes weren’t even active.. Do any of you pros know if the space heater “gain” would get more out of the tube? Thanks.

also, I’m used to seeing tubes glow, this more pedal tubes had zero glow to it, not even much heat… but the led was glowing. Was using a one spot 9v power supply as well which has plenty of Ma.
Thoughts??

I have not tried More, but I did have a deep dish, which it is based off of. I preferred the space heater or finally. The deep dish definitely seemed more subtle.

 

[lomo]

I demoed a “more” going straight into my Mesa 800+ (Trying to get some tube warmth) but didn’t really hear anything significant. Almost as if the tubes weren’t even active.. Do any of you pros know if the space heater “gain” would get more out of the tube? Thanks.

also, I’m used to seeing tubes glow, this more pedal tubes had zero glow to it, not even much heat… but the led was glowing. Was using a one spot 9v power supply as well which has plenty of Ma.
Thoughts??

The more is definitely intended as a fairly subtle tube warmer, and will not produce significant overdrive. The slam peg, underground accelerator, and space heater are all much more audible/less subtle effects, and also far more adjustable. Keep in mind all of these will also depend on how hot your input signal is. Right now, there are several excellent deals on these other sushi boxes in the classifieds.

 

[4Mal]

I demoed a “more” going straight into my Mesa 800+ (Trying to get some tube warmth) but didn’t really hear anything significant. Almost as if the tubes weren’t even active.. Do any of you pros know if the space heater “gain” would get more out of the tube? Thanks.

also, I’m used to seeing tubes glow, this more pedal tubes had zero glow to it, not even much heat… but the led was glowing. Was using a one spot 9v power supply as well which has plenty of Ma.
Thoughts??

This is what I hoped the WD-800 would be...
IIRC, preamp tubes do not generally glow. Power tubes do that...

I have a More that I ran as the final link in the chain last week. Seemed nice there. Not at all grindy. Warm, transparent gain stage. I spent a lot of time demoing that and the Space Heater direct to mixer and over phones. More imparts a subtle 'heft'. It just sounds like a bigger, rounder version of what it was fed. Maybe too subtle for some.

Space Heater can definately get a pleasant bit of hair on it while remaining transparent.

I expect more folks will get on with what the Space Heater brings to the party as it is easy to dial in somethin that is definable.

 

[JackFawkes]

also, I’m used to seeing tubes glow, this more pedal tubes had zero glow to it, not even much heat… but the led was glowing. Was using a one spot 9v power supply as well which has plenty of Ma.
Thoughts??

I've never known any 9-pin preamp tube to glow, even though it'd be beautiful if they did...
On some preamp tubes if you look at a specific angle, you'll see one end of a cathode filament which will emit a tiny orange "dot" of light about the size of the tip of a needle; much too small to provide any actual luminescence unfortunately.

Some of the old European preamp tubes would "flash" when powered on, but honestly even that half-second flash is only noticeable in a very dark environment.
I've got a 60's Mullard in my Black Eye X (with no LEDs) and it does flash when the 9v power adapter is plugged in, but the room literally has to be pitch dark to even notice it... in regular lighting conditions you can't see it even if you're watching and waiting for it.

I think that's probably why LEDs became a thing with preamp tubes in racks and pedals, so that you can even see that there's actually something under the vents; otherwise they'd just look like any other dark and dusty ventilation slot.

Jack

 

[jaibeau]

I have not tried More, but I did have a deep dish, which it is based off of. I preferred the space heater or finally. The deep dish definitely seemed more subtle.

Haven’t looked into the deep dish, I don’t need the DI section of the finally spot didn’t wanna pay for the extras-

 

[jaibeau]

I've never known any 9-pin preamp tube to glow, even though it'd be beautiful if they did...
On some preamp tubes if you look at a specific angle, you'll see one end of a cathode filament which will emit a tiny orange "dot" of light about the size of the tip of a needle; much too small to provide any actual luminescence unfortunately.

Some of the old European preamp tubes would "flash" when powered on, but honestly even that half-second flash is only noticeable in a very dark environment.
I've got a 60's Mullard in my Black Eye X (with no LEDs) and it does flash when the 9v power adapter is plugged in, but the room literally has to be pitch dark to even notice it... in regular lighting conditions you can't see it even if you're watching and waiting for it.

I think that's probably why LEDs became a thing with preamp tubes in racks and pedals, so that you can even see that there's actually something under the vents; otherwise they'd just look like any other dark and dusty ventilation slot.

Jack

Good info, I guess it was the 6550’s lit up that I’m thinking… it’s not like I wanted to see them glow, I just didn’t hear enough difference and got me thinking, “are these doing anything”… I’ll look at some of the sushi with the gain stage to just get a bit of push which really is what I’m trying to do… no OD, just…. Ya know.

 

[Thumper]

Does the More respond positively to being "pushed" like my Finally, UA, and Slampegg do? I use TC Sparks and a Phat Phuk B with them to good effect.

4Mal, I also am still using the X2, I have 3, and still really like them.

 

[JackFawkes]

Good info, I guess it was the 6550’s lit up that I’m thinking… it’s not like I wanted to see them glow, I just didn’t hear enough difference and got me thinking, “are these doing anything”… I’ll look at some of the sushi with the gain stage to just get a bit of push which really is what I’m trying to do… no OD, just…. Ya know.

I feel that. I really love Sushi Box pedals and tubes overall, but I totally agree with you that the "tube" sound is usually pretty subtle... unless you're pushing hard enough to hit distortion.
I haven't tried a More, but with my Slampegg and Finally I do feel like I need to turn the Gain up slightly more than I actually want to, if I really want to hear the tube "juiciness".

Looking at preamp tube triodes as the amplification devices they are, they were designed at the time to be as "linear" and "transparent" sounding as possible. That distinct sound they can add to guitar and bass really only happens when a tube is being pushed out of its comfort zone, either by feeding it a hot/boosted signal or by turning up the Gain just a little more than it probably needs (pretty much the same effect either way).
That's why the old guitarist habit of dialing the Gain of a tube amp up to "the edge of distortion" works so well... they're getting the tube to add as much of its "character" as possible before it starts to spill over into full-on distortion.

*Actually there's one more way to get a preamp tube out of its comfort zone, which is to take it in the opposite direction and make a cold clipping circuit by running a much lower voltage through it than it's designed for... but Sushi Box pedals don't do that, they're designed to run tubes up at their warm and gooey higher-voltage specifications.

As for your specific audio goals, if the More isn't giving you what you want as-is, two crazy things you could possibly try are running another boost in front of it to hit the tube harder, or replace the 12AU7 with a different preamp tube that has more voltage gain... a 5751 has almost 4X the gain of an AU (and a 12AX7 has almost 5X) so that could possibly impart more tube character to the output of your More (but will probably make its output much louder/hotter too).

Alternatively, you could try a Space Heater instead of a More... both circuits are essentially just different approaches to using a 9-pin preamp tube to boost a signal:
The More uses two gain stages of a 12AU7 in Parallel. Which on paper, to me, seems like it would give a subtle "3D character" to the signal while prioritizing "clean headroom". Sort of a clean boost with a little added flair.
The Space Heater uses two gain stages of a 12AX7 in Series. To me, this approach seems like it'd naturally create a lot of boost/gain to easily push that second gain stage out of its "comfort zone" and generate that "tube sound", but with a comparatively less "clean" signal. A stronger boost that starts to overdrive at higher Gain settings.
You could also tame the Space Heater slightly by replacing the 12AX7 with a lower gain tube, like a 5751 (which is what I like to use in my Finally).

Anyways, I kinda went on a bunch of tangents there, and reality might be different than my own impressions and speculations; but hopefully that wall of text helps in some way.

Jack

 

[havnjero]

@Sushi Box FX - Hey man. I know there is much talk about the possibility of a "Furthermore" pedal, and I also realise this maybe be some time away.

So bearing that in mind how hard or possible would it be to create a "Finally" with adjustable high and low pass filters (set slopes, 2 extra knobs, adjustable high and low frequency points)?

Could call it a Finally Plus ?

this would be super useful for upright.

 

[jaibeau]

I feel that. I really love Sushi Box pedals and tubes overall, but I totally agree with you that the "tube" sound is usually pretty subtle... unless you're pushing hard enough to hit distortion.
I haven't tried a More, but with my Slampegg and Finally I do feel like I need to turn the Gain up slightly more than I actually want to, if I really want to hear the tube "juiciness".

Looking at preamp tube triodes as the amplification devices they are, they were designed at the time to be as "linear" and "transparent" sounding as possible. That distinct sound they can add to guitar and bass really only happens when a tube is being pushed out of its comfort zone, either by feeding it a hot/boosted signal or by turning up the Gain just a little more than it probably needs (pretty much the same effect either way).
That's why the old guitarist habit of dialing the Gain of a tube amp up to "the edge of distortion" works so well... they're getting the tube to add as much of its "character" as possible before it starts to spill over into full-on distortion.

*Actually there's one more way to get a preamp tube out of its comfort zone, which is to take it in the opposite direction and make a cold clipping circuit by running a much lower voltage through it than it's designed for... but Sushi Box pedals don't do that, they're designed to run tubes up at their warm and gooey higher-voltage specifications.

As for your specific audio goals, if the More isn't giving you what you want as-is, two crazy things you could possibly try are running another boost in front of it to hit the tube harder, or replace the 12AU7 with a different preamp tube that has more voltage gain... a 5751 has almost 4X the gain of an AU (and a 12AX7 has almost 5X) so that could possibly impart more tube character to the output of your More (but will probably make its output much louder/hotter too).

Alternatively, you could try a Space Heater instead of a More... both circuits are essentially just different approaches to using a 9-pin preamp tube to boost a signal:
The More uses two gain stages of a 12AU7 in Parallel. Which on paper, to me, seems like it would give a subtle "3D character" to the signal while prioritizing "clean headroom". Sort of a clean boost with a little added flair.
The Space Heater uses two gain stages of a 12AX7 in Series. To me, this approach seems like it'd naturally create a lot of boost/gain to easily push that second gain stage out of its "comfort zone" and generate that "tube sound", but with a comparatively less "clean" signal. A stronger boost that starts to overdrive at higher Gain settings.
You could also tame the Space Heater slightly by replacing the 12AX7 with a lower gain tube, like a 5751 (which is what I like to use in my Finally).

Anyways, I kinda went on a bunch of tangents there, and reality might be different than my own impressions and speculations; but hopefully that wall of text helps in some way.

Jack

You know uour stuff, good info! Doesn’t help that my backlined amp tonight is an SVT classic-

 

[bassbrad]

You know uour stuff, good info! Doesn’t help that my backlined amp tonight is an SVT classic-

In my last rider the promoter owed me $250 if any Ampeg was in my backline, hate that stuff. I collected more than once.

 

[bassbrad]

this would be super useful for upright.

You people with the lfp/hpf fetish.

 

[jaibeau]

In my last rider the promoter owed me $250 if any Ampeg was in my backline, hate that stuff. I collected more than once.

 

[bassbrad]

View attachment 4886093

Contrary to TB mythology there was a long time when Ampeg amps sucked, SLM aka Crate days or the eighties and early nineties. in fact they didn't suck they more of flaccidly opened and said ahhh.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

Contrary to TB mythology there was a long time when Ampeg amps sucked, SLM aka Crate days or the eighties and early nineties. in fact they didn't suck they more of flaccidly opened and said ahhh.

…pretty sure we’re talking about the flip top days not the crate daze. The Slampegg Bee isn’t based on 80’s topology.

 

[bassbrad]

…pretty sure we’re talking about the flip top days not the crate daze. The Slampegg Bee isn’t based on 80’s topology.

I'm aware that the designs @Sushi Box FX uses are much revered but I have never really liked any Ampeg tones. It is a personal preference but understand why so many bass players and engineers do love that sound.

For the record Jaco was devoted to Acoustic, John Entwistle was devoted to Sunn and lots of players used Fender Showman and others amps instead of Ampegs as mythos wants you to believe. There are dozens of forgotten amp companied that were once big players.