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Double Bass The Talent Code, and concepts related to it

Hdiddy--We were comparing using an SR device to using a Shuffle device. Now you seem to be saying you do not like devices. They both have the same technical limitations as to how they play a tune. While you could cut up sound clips for SR (or an iPod), you don't have to. I agree that the upfront cost might be too much. But you could use whole tunes, as you do with an iPod, and still gain the benefit of SR.

I use SR for practicing improvisation. Any way that you can practice with a sound clip on an iPod, you can do on Anki. The point is to improve the scheduling.

Mr. PC--Jazz musicians went to gigs and watched their heroes play. When records came out, they bought them. When tape recorders came out, they bought them. When slow downers came out, they bought them. There is a long history of Jazz musicians adopting technology to better meet their goals. There is also a long history of writers who used to think word processors were too cumbersome for "artists".

But again, I want to say that SR is not the only tool. It is great for something that you are committed to learning and remembering. But you also have to perform and experiment with what you have learned to become fluent.

One creative way I am using SR is for learning to improvise on any key, in any mode, on any single string. I just made some ii V7 I loops for each key and attached them to SR items labeled with the key, mode and string. My goal is to play interesting music, without stress or tension, using only the notes of the mode. It is similar to what Mick Goodrich recommends in "The Advancing Guitarist", except I am using an SR schedule instead of a fixed schedule. The ones that are most difficult get the most attention. So far the results are promising.
 
Hdiddy--We were comparing using an SR device to using a Shuffle device. Now you seem to be saying you do not like devices. They both have the same technical limitations as to how they play a tune. While you could cut up sound clips for SR (or an iPod), you don't have to. I agree that the upfront cost might be too much. But you could use whole tunes, as you do with an iPod, and still gain the benefit of SR.

I use SR for practicing improvisation. Any way that you can practice with a sound clip on an iPod, you can do on Anki. The point is to improve the scheduling.
I'm not against using a device. The "pick a practice out of a hat" - as primitive as it is, is still technology. The thing I keep trying to point out is to remember why you are doing this. My personal goal is to be able to create music and communicate new musical ideas soulfully. My goal is not memorization or to be able create new combinations of phrases that I've learned.

SR can and does work, but I don't see how compartmentalizing clips in an app where you repeat what you put into it helps in a larger scale. IMO, it's better used as another means of picking subjects out of a hat, and force your mind and imagination to work in a new way.
 
I don't think we disagree all that much. I am not against "free range practice". I think it is crucial. But there are also musical skills and knowledge that you need to learn and maintain. If you want to do that as efficiently as possible, SR is superior to random or fixed schedules.
 
I think it is the one step forward/two steps back feeling of learning new skills, only to forget old ones that demoralizes most musicians.

I am still bothered by this statement. Could you explain why you believe musicians are "DEMORALIZED" just because they don't always have 100% instant recall of musical information?
 
Just finished "Duhigg's" The Power Of Habit. It's an interesting study of repeated behaviors and offers an explanation of "habit loops" and how they are established. Like TTC, it isn't perfect but it resonates.

This period of reading books like these two plus "Talent Is Overrated" (which I liked) and "Mindset" (which I didn't, at least not much) has been really interesting from a perspective point of view. Almost 40 years ago as a child I stumbled upon a couple of books on my dad's bookshelves that I read, and to the extent that I was capable of understanding them at the time, they changed the fundamental way I looked at myself and other people. Those two books were by Desmond Morris: The Naked Ape and [/i]The Human Zoo[/i]. Their influence was profound not because they answered a lot of questions, but because they caused me to start asking a lot more. This period is kind of like that, and I think these books are useful in the same way.

Reading the opinions/insights/conjectures of others on the way our brains work tends to make us look for answers in new ways, and search for new solutions to old problems or issues. Reading the books alone won't solve anything or answer anything, but like the chapter on "Ignition" in TTC, they can set us on the path to looking for new ways to approach old patterns of behavior, which I appreciate a lot and am really grateful for at this time. To me, these issues will always be a mixture of science and mystery, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
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Sorry if I'm getting a little too lofy but I'm heading at this subject from a completely different direction now. In a certain manner, books like TTC are approaching performance from a physiological and technical view: how skills are acquired and absorbed. This is inescapable - yes you have to learn the components to be able to perform.

Certainly, these books advocate that the skills are put together through exercises, games, and being tested in competition or what not. The manner in which this occurs - the actual combining of skills seems a little vague.

We've talked about martial arts in the past, and in thinking about it, most of the systems are excellent at doing exactly this. One particular avenue that is having a lot of meaning and bears a lot of fruit is meditation. Not the chanting of mantras or thinking about zen koans, but the awareness internally and externally.

I've started searching around for things that relate zen to jazz and found this interesting tidbit yesterday:
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In other sites, someone also posed a thoughtful question - where does the music end and where your thoughts begin? Which leads me to ask, who's playing the music? Who's conceiving the ideas? The esoteric question are endless. They're fun questions, but I think the most important one to me is:

Are you meditating when you are performing?

I have my answer but am interested in what others have to say. What do you think is going on when you are improvising or performing a piece? Where is your mind and where is the sound coming from?
 
Here's another one with this interesting passage:
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The idea that Zen and Jazz are at some level analogous has been around for years. Bill Evans an earlier Jazz piano virtuoso once described his interest in Zen: "I don’t pretend to understand it. I just find it comforting – and very similar to Jazz. Like Jazz, you can’t explain it to anyone without losing the experience. That’s why it bugs me when people try to analyze Jazz as an intellectual theorem. It’s not. It’s feeling."

How do we get from the skills acquired from TTC into what Bill is talking about?

Sorry if this is kind of a derail.
 
Here's another one with this interesting passage:
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How do we get from the skills acquired from TTC into what Bill is talking about?

Sorry if this is kind of a derail.

One of the articles I posted was about how to rapidly learn a foreign language. There has been a lot of research going into this area, because many branches of the government are in a rush to get people speaking Middle Eastern languages. The formula is:

  • Use spaced repetition to memorize grammar and vocabulary efficiently.
  • Use the language for a purpose.
  • Interact with native speakers.
If you think of music as a language, you can figure out the analogous steps.
 
Back to more technical things. I like ti use the Capo app for iphone to learn tunes and slow them down. Yeah, it's the not most sophisticated "Slowdowner" but I like the usability of the app for the most part.

Anyways, I'm learning a tune right now and doing a sort of corollary to slow practicing. I set the app to play the tune at the slowest speed (1/4 of the normal speed) and learn it at that pace. I can catch the articulations immediately and learn to slow-learn the melody. I think it's worth exploring than trying to just slow it down when needed. Instead, I'm starting super slow and speeding up.

Oh yeah, and I'm learning it by ear first, then transcribing it from my mind once I have it down (I need to create a lead sheet for others).
 
It's been quite a while since I read it, but I still reference the idea of "chunking" information when I start trying to learn a new technique, scale, etc. Whether it's in my professional life, musician life, or otherwise - I always try to divide large problems into many smaller, more easily solved problems. Then assemble the parts back together.
 
This may sound weird, but a lot changed for me when I simply started to make my bed each morning. That small win when I would get home to a made bed "proved" to me that I could change habits. Started doing the dishes before bed, putting records back on shelf, practicing at least 15 minutes a day ..and eventually it all became habit. My practicing is now part of my daily routine and usually more than an hour. I practice more than ever, never feel like i "have" to practice, nor feel guilty when I miss a day. Since it's just another part of my day, i have come to actually love practicing because its fun again...

Anyway YMMV.