theory over rated

[RedLeg]

You can have fun and play blues and covers every weekend and no one will fault you for it. You can also step up your knowledge and learn about minor 2 5 1's and altered dominants etc. and really begin to understand how to improv and comunicate with other learned musicians. Theory opens doors, not places constraints on you.

Special shoutout to the people that think theory kills originality and places constraints on you. Knowlegde never constrains you. There really aren't any set rules in stone; but rather penciled in. Harmonies that are popular today, were verbotten 100 years ago. Hell, they have been trying to resolve that pesky tritone in the dom7 chord for years. then it became easier on the ears to handle, and it became part of modern music.

There are only 11 notes. it is what you do with them that makes it interesting. Some will be able to theorize better than others about what is happening at any givin time related to music, but it always boils down to what sounds good and what are you doing with those 11 notes. Hell there is even a way to land on the 4 of a 1 chord and make it work. But you have to know how to do it. You can't get lucky on that on kiddies! Ya gotta know some theory to improv; else you sound lost and confused. It is like listening to a conversation between a native english speaker and some one that cant speak a lick of english. The non english speaker may get some words right, but the syntax and overall flow to the sentences will be all off. But with practice, you'd never be able to tell. So plug away at some theory. It will come.

Theory kills originality and places constraints on you my a$$. I guess the world isnt ready for your new hipness, that is probably a cheap knock off of some other doosh's bad music. News flash, nothing you unlearned arse's are doing is completely original. In music, something is always borrowed. Now quit being lazy, learn some theory and write some decent music, because we need it!

 

[shtik]

I suspect that many who claim theory knowledge is somehow useless or even harmful do this out of a fragile ego and the desire to claim that they are natural talents who are self taught through their talent and inspiration.

Being "self taught" does mean that the person did learn what he needs to know, and not that he just played and everything was cool.

One little story..

One guitar player I used to play with in high school always said to me "I don't care about theory, Hendrix didn't know theory" (being a Hendrix fan, he was so sure he can be like him without knowing anything). During that period I was always trying to learn everything I could on music, theory and such.

To make a long story short, the guy is now doing his 4th year studying criminology (fun I assume, but not as music). I am a professional working player. He even started to ask me questions about theory in the last times we met. I gave him very fun lessons, and a question of my own just hit me: Have he asked these questions 10 years ago.. Where would he be now (In terms of music playing)??

 

[JDeewond]

Oh brother.. The kid obviously knows english. He just loves bastardizing it with short forms on words that are already 4 letters long. Thanks for the lesson PerlNinja, I'll make sure to learn 5 different languages before pointing out the dumbing of a language for simplicity's sake. F off.

Sounds to me like you might want to tone down on that kind of attitude; there's plenty of people on this forum whose native language isn't English. Considering that you, most likely, speak only English, or perhaps English and French, I suggest you be quiet until you've learned to write in 4 languages fluently.

See how annoyingly arrogant that is?

Before you ask: Dutch, English, German, Indonesian.

 

[staindbass]

if you follow theory, you end up playing stuff everyone else played already.. similar to cooking from a cookbook instead of inventing your own creations. it is a fact you dont need theory to be successful. i think it is a good thing to know, but not required. maybe if i had studied theory i would not be where i am, i play the way i do because i figured it out myself. 15 million albums aint that bad.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

I've seen some posters here suggest in a way that one should learn all theory before going to the practical end; if it would be like that, I'm thinking there won't be many new bassists.

I dunno; I've been around here a while, and I don't think I've EVER seen that suggestion made by anybody. Not once. Certainly not in this thread, and not in any other that I remember seeing.

 

[cnltb]

if you follow theory, you end up playing stuff everyone else played already.. similar to cooking from a cookbook instead of inventing your own creations. it is a fact you dont need theory to be successful. i think it is a good thing to know, but not required. maybe if i had studied theory i would not be where i am, i play the way i do because i figured it out myself.

Sorry to be so blunt but your first sentence is a lot of baloney and it may be read by impressionable people who might actually believe it.
Not good.

It is a fact that you don't even have to be a decent player to be successful, but that doesn't have much to do with what this thread has become and the real issues addressed.

I am too lazy now to elaborate on reasons for what I am saying here, but that has been done enough in this thread already i recon.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

if you follow theory, you end up playing stuff everyone else played already.

I'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense. It's the kind of thing only someone who didn't really understand theory would say. 30 seconds' thought should be enough to show you that the naive romantic idea of knowledge being opposed to creativity is fatally flawed.

As just one example, every single new conceptual development in classical music since Bach has been made by people who knew theory inside and out. As another, you would be hard pressed to find a great jazz player today who didn't know theory quite well.

I'm not knocking your playing in any way, and it's great that you've made a success of it, but what you're displaying here is a very narrow view of what theory's about. A beginning player like the OP would benefit from a broader view. You're doing him or her no favors by basically suggesting that you should learn as little as you can get away with.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

It's an important distinction to make, since I've seen some posters here suggest in a way that one should learn all theory before going to the practical end; if it would be like that, I'm thinking there won't be many new bassists.

The point surely would be enough theory to explain what you play to others? If for example you play Blues then a lot of theory is going to be useless, the part that applies to you and your playing will be relevent. You really only need to understand what applies to your playing and your playing situation.

 

[1958Bassman]

I haven't seen muscle memory mentioned- if scales and other patterns aren't practiced, playing them when needed won't sound smooth and professional because it's not a familiar scale or pattern.

 

[groooooove]

I just play any random note that I feel like. The band really digs it.

 

[kevbassman]

Boy, is this a tough question to answer. I think both apply..........having a knowledge of music theory...and learning tunes. Having a good ear is the most important thing IMHO. Our guitar player cannot read a note of music, no theory background..........but he has the god given talent of perfect pitch. There is no easy way.............every person is different.............but theory makes you understand your instrument...........and others. I say do both.

 

[Thombas]

I'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense. It's the kind of thing only someone who didn't really understand theory would say. 30 seconds' thought should be enough to show you that the naive romantic idea of knowledge being opposed to creativity is fatally flawed.

+1. I read an interview with Billy Sheehan 20+ yrs ago, where he said something like "You've gotta know the rules before you can break them" in relation to music theory. He sure didn't/doesn't just play like everybody else before him...

 

[GeoffT]

if you follow theory, you end up playing stuff everyone else played already.. similar to cooking from a cookbook instead of inventing your own creations. it is a fact you dont need theory to be successful. i think it is a good thing to know, but not required. maybe if i had studied theory i would not be where i am, i play the way i do because i figured it out myself. 15 million albums aint that bad.

So, your playing stuff that has never been done before and are a true innovator because you never learned theory?

The 15 million albums is getting kinda old, Milli Vanilli sold a bunch of albums too.

Maybe if you took some time to learn theory, you might understand how useful it can be. Might actually even make you better than you already think you are.

 

[Mayers]

Boy, is this a tough question to answer. I think both apply..........having a knowledge of music theory...and learning tunes. Having a good ear is the most important thing IMHO. Our guitar player cannot read a note of music, no theory background..........but he has the god given talent of perfect pitch. There is no easy way.............every person is different.............but theory makes you understand your instrument...........and others. I say do both.

I met someone with perfect pitch during my college degree in music and at one point he quit music because it was way too easy for him, no challenge. You have perfect pitch, you know music theory, the only limitation are technical. I remember he could listen to his Ipod while the teacher played something and could write what the teacher just played. It was amazing.

 

[Papa Dangerous]

I cannot believe there is such a huge debate over theory.

Anyone who plays a chord, or a scale is playing by theoretical rules. Therefore, you are applying theory to music.

The End.

 

[Black Bart]

Since when knowledge is overated ??? Seriously ??? I find it funny how many people don't want to be the best they can ... no they are ok with a very low level.

Haven't you heard? Mediocrity is the new standard of excellence!

 

[Mayers]

Another thing ... I find it funny since electric guitar and bass were invented how music became something eveyrone could do and so 90% of people dumbed down music because they don't want/don't care/think knowing more is stupid. Seriously we went from classical music to rap in 100 years ... !!!

Well music is like your language. You speak english, french whatever what, you don't need to know language theory to speak but you will be very limited.

And if you didn't learn language theory, you couldn't be here asking questions, seeking advice or explain your idea with the right words.

 

[PerlNinja]

Oh brother.. The kid obviously knows english. He just loves bastardizing it with short forms on words that are already 4 letters long. Thanks for the lesson PerlNinja, I'll make sure to learn 5 different languages before pointing out the dumbing of a language for simplicity's sake. F off.

If you can't put together a rebuttal without having to result to slinging the F word around, why bother? And yeah, if you can speak, comprehend and write 5 different languages, then you can criticise all you want. Before then, that attitude you were displaying can only get up and bite you in the ass.

 

[PerlNinja]

I dunno; I've been around here a while, and I don't think I've EVER seen that suggestion made by anybody. Not once. Certainly not in this thread, and not in any other that I remember seeing.

It's not a direct suggestion people make, it's just the underlying vibe I get off threads like this. Maybe it's just me

 

[Papa Dangerous]

Another thing ... I find it funny since electric guitar and bass were invented how music became something eveyrone could do and so 90% of people dumbed down music because they don't want/don't care/think knowing more is stupid. Seriously we went from classical music to rap in 100 years ... !!!

Well music is like your language. You speak english, french whatever what, you don't need to know language theory to speak but you will be very limited.

And if you didn't learn language theory, you couldn't be here asking questions, seeking advice or explain your idea with the right words.

Kanye is the new Wagner