Things You Never Want Recording Engineers To Say...

[bkbirge]

Producer - "It doesn't really matter if you use a click or not, we've still gotta spend ages doing this..."

...IS THAT TRUE? (I personally can't imagine it taking anywhere NEAR as long...)

No, it depends on the track and what you want to accomplish. I never adjust the timing of a performance, if it isn't right I suggest that everyone just play it again. The endless turd polishing that goes on in studio (computers?) these days is silly IMO. Get it right at the source, makes life a lot easier.

 

[capnsandwich]

Producer - "It doesn't really matter if you use a click or not, we've still gotta spend ages doing this..."

...IS THAT TRUE? (I personally can't imagine it taking anywhere NEAR as long...)

It all depends on how many songs you're doing, how many tracks, how many instruments, how tight you are as a band, how well you are at your instruments, etc. It could very easily take a few days, especially if you want a quality recording. If you didn't record with a click track then there's really nothing to go by as far as timing goes. the drummer could very easily go from 98 BPM to 105 BPM and no one would ever notice, but as soon as you start editing that's where things get hairy. If you use a click track from the beginning then you have a set tempo to line everything up by and it makes editing much easier and faster. I ALWAYS request a click track when we record, even on the scratch tracks.

 

[capnsandwich]

Get it right at the source, makes life a lot easier.

That's easier said than done if you have novice players. It may be a little easier to do if you have experienced musicians or session players, which also adds to the point of this post:

nah - it's not malicious in most cases, at least in my experience. feelings can be hurt but most realize they need a good sounding recording, whatever it takes. studio and live are two different animals. I've had to learn to play live the last few years...I couldn't do it at first. so used to studio work.

sometimes it's money. I can lay a part down in a take or two and have minimal editing - that's cheaper than a whole day w/ someone who's not used to doing it, or doubling parts etc. I use a drummer outta Nashville to do most of my drums these days. I know some of the best drummers on the planet! but this guy has GREAT chops and he's dirt cheap - in most cases I get a whole track out of him for about the cost of just setting up a kit in a decent room. that outweighs "feelings" on a big project, and most bands I've worked w/ would agree...

 

[5StringBlues]

" I think we need to get Wentz in here to overdub your bass parts."

 

[capnsandwich]

" I think we need to get Wentz in here to overdub your bass parts."

That was actually said by an engineer? Even if it wasn't it's still funny.

 

[MisterMagician]

I think the biggest reason the replacing tracks thing rubs me the wrong way is that my time would have been wasted just being there at all. I could have been doing things I actually enjoy (I HATE recording).

 

[Jehos]

I think the biggest reason the replacing tracks thing rubs me the wrong way is that my time would have been wasted just being there at all. I could have been doing things I actually enjoy (I HATE recording).

I don't mean this maliciously, but some of that time could probably be spent practicing your timing then.

The studio can be quick and easy, but you need to build a whole different set of skills. Basically you have to be able to play to a click while only hearing a crappy mix of your band in headphones. You've got to be able to run through a song starting at any part and not losing your place, which means you have to know your songs inside-out, upside-down, and backwards. If you can do both of those, you can quickly turn into the one-take wonder, where you just nail your part then go take a nap on the couch in the lounge or something.

If you can stick to the click even in the face of a drummer who is changing time slightly, you can even go get a sandwich while the drummer tries to nail his part an lock in with *you* instead of the other way around, then come back and re-track your part to groove with the drummer's final take. That's the trickiest part though--you've got to be able to play with real energy while listening to a recording so all that energy has to come from within.

My favorite thing for engineers to say: "That sounded great. Go take a break."

 

[groooooove]

"im a guitar player.."

"im a drummer.."

"oh, well MY BAND.."

all bad news comming from an engineer.

 

[Korladis]

Anything. Recording engineers are there to record the music, not for their prose. They should not speak unless spoken to.

I'm not serious, of course I would want some honest opinions of how a take sounded, modest suggestions for how something might work better (modest being the keyword).

If it's somebody else's session that I'm just a hired gun for, then okay, whatever, the person paying me is the boss.

If it's my session, I'm the boss. Any demand from the booth that I play something other than the instrument I prefer will be met with a reminder of that fact. So will any mix that results in me being buried.

 

[Lindsay]

I had limited space on the hard drive so I....

 

[Bochafish]

There is a somewhat famous story of Steely Dan recording. They recorded a tune that Fagen and Becker considered one of their best pieces of work. Later on an engineer was working on the track, and accidentally erased the entire song. They worked hard to re-record it, but couldn't capture what they originally had on that take. They were so upset that they decided to scrap the song, and never played it again. So we will never hear what Fagen and Becker once considered one of their best songs ever.

 

[WalterBush]

There is a somewhat famous story of Steely Dan recording. They recorded a tune that Fagen and Becker considered one of their best pieces of work. Later on an engineer was working on the track, and accidentally erased the entire song. They worked hard to re-record it, but couldn't capture what they originally had on that take. They were so upset that they decided to scrap the song, and never played it again. So we will never hear what Fagen and Becker once considered one of their best songs ever.

The name of the song is, "The Second Arrangement." I know a guy with a bootleg rough mix. It's a decent tune, but Gaucho didn't suffer from it not being there. It's honestly not that great a song; my sources tell me that Becker and Fagen just didn't want the hassle; a few albums earlier, Fagen had tossed a synth out the window because of the amount of hassle it gave him. I guess they weren't big on patience at that point of their careers.

Becker and Fagen, to this day, deny the existence of the track, but I've heard it, and there's no mistaking that voice, or the song's style, anywhere. We thought about recording our own version and releasing it, but I'm willing to bet it's copyrighted, despite the Steely Dan's protests that it doesn't exist.

EDIT: One of the members of the band in question is an acquaintance, professionally, with Walter Becker, but more importantly, Roger Nichols. So I've heard a few details of the story; the studio intern was supposed to make a copy of the mixdown to listen for mastering purposes. He copied the blank tape over the original, rather than the other way 'round. I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet he hasn't worked much since then.

 

[stylonpilson]

So we will never hear what Fagen and Becker once considered one of their best songs ever.

♫Couldn't remember the greatest song in the world, noooo, this is just a tribute♫

S.P.

 

[BassMaster4s]

Producer-"Alright, lets get the bass out of the way quick."

 

[Mr 600]

Late on a Saturday night, when we were in the groove:
"Hey guys, we used the last of the 2" tape...." (he managed to scrounge up some more, saving the session)

We always worked with John Kuker at Seedy Underbelly studios (now in Hollywood, CA) and I loved how he would tell us, "OK, lets run through it one more time, then record." After we would finish rehearsing the song one last time to make sure it was right, he would say, "Got it." Moral: ALWAYS RECORD!

If anyone in L.A. wants to work with someone cool and easygoing, and who's good at getting awesome sounds, look him up.
Tell him Ike sent ya!
Link Removed

 

[KPAX]

This isn't working, the bass player is terrible.

I'm here in a studio while the band is mixing their EP and I hear the engineer say, "Uh Oh! What did I just do?" Scary moment indeed.


So let's hear some more phrases that scare you to death in the studio....

 

[Bochafish]

The name of the song is, "The Second Arrangement." I know a guy with a bootleg rough mix. It's a decent tune, but Gaucho didn't suffer from it not being there. It's honestly not that great a song; my sources tell me that Becker and Fagen just didn't want the hassle; a few albums earlier, Fagen had tossed a synth out the window because of the amount of hassle it gave him. I guess they weren't big on patience at that point of their careers.

Becker and Fagen, to this day, deny the existence of the track, but I've heard it, and there's no mistaking that voice, or the song's style, anywhere. We thought about recording our own version and releasing it, but I'm willing to bet it's copyrighted, despite the Steely Dan's protests that it doesn't exist.

EDIT: One of the members of the band in question is an acquaintance, professionally, with Walter Becker, but more importantly, Roger Nichols. So I've heard a few details of the story; the studio intern was supposed to make a copy of the mixdown to listen for mastering purposes. He copied the blank tape over the original, rather than the other way 'round. I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet he hasn't worked much since then.

Awesome post, Steely Dan is one of my favorites, thank you for the insight. I feel sorry for that tech though.


Also, Stylon, your Tenacious D reference did not go unoticed

 

[jruberto]

bassist treated as the typical afterthought: "we'll just run the bass direct. you don't mind, do you?". we gotta fight to be heard!

I always take a DI. Always. Even if there are 5 mics on 3 different bass amps.

4 times out of 5 its the best sounding source.

 

[capnsandwich]

I always take a DI. Always. Even if there are 5 mics on 3 different bass amps.

4 times out of 5 its the best sounding source.

Yeah, me too. It's always a flawless take as long as the DI is working properly. I tried the amp thing and every time we did it we always either had level problems (clipping) or other sounds bleeding through the mix like air conditioners kicking on or people walking around on the floor above.

 

[jruberto]

Then you're not going to the right guy.

I get hired as an engineer because of my ears, my ability to pull tones out of my ass at a seconds notice, my training and most of all, my ability to make you sound GREAT on a record/EP/demo/jingle/etc. If you're unwilling to take constructive criticism in the studio, then you shouldn't be there. Live and studio are two VERY different animals...trust me, I have experience in both worlds as an engineer AND as a bass player.

Totally. I recorded these guys the other week and the bassist wanted to run though his little $89 ipod-sized effects processor and insisted that we needed to record the bass in stereo (out of the headphone jack of the thing!!). He got real sore when I said I thought it was a bad idea, so I said we'd try it out.. We did an A/B with my signal chain vs. his and the difference was ridiculous. The negotiation and the A/B cost the band an extra hour (and they seemed a little upset with him for holding things up), but the end result was a killer bass tone rather than awful overcompressed hissy thin stereo (not to mention out of phase stereo, it sounded even worse summed to mono) bass.