hybrids are no scam. they do sound better than plain ss heads imho, so they're no scam. now if they make the tube a glorified pilot light, then it's a scam. but most makers actually do something useful with it.
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Thinking about making the jump to Tubes... input needed!
- Thread starter Din Of Win
- Start date
no, it's a sales thing. they want a cheap tube head for those who want tubes but don't want to drop $1900 on a vr, and smarvo licenses their design to eden and eden tweaks it slightly.
Have you had much experience with Hartke Heads? They have IMO some of the best hybrid heads around. The 1000 watt Kilo is a beast of an amp, victor wooten plays one. Hartke amps are road worth as well I've been giging with my hartke for about 4 years now, and it's in your price range.
Please don't make the mistake of lecturing me about tube amps. I've been building them since I was in my teens. Until the late seventies I used only tube amps. the later ones were my designs. I simply consider a SS output stage a more logical and elegant thing but I do like to have a tube in the chain somewhere.
I also made no comment about reliability. A well designed tube output stage should be as reliable as a well designed SS one. the problems start when you try to get every last watt out of a set of tubes. Running anything at its limits will lead to problems sooner or later. I personally prefer to get 300W via an octet of KT88s. They last longer that way.
if toting a tube amp fullfils your needs more power to you. For me it's a case of been there, done that and no thanks, not anymore.
Paul
Used I got mine for $800, but I know they can go for even cheaper. That said, it cost me $350 to retube it (when I bought it the original tubes it came with were still inside of it). If you look you can find a better deal than what I got it for. Mesa also make a bass 400 (no plus) that only uses six tubes in the power section instead of the 12. I've also heard of people putting different kinds of power tubes to get different sounds but I'm not too educated on this. I don't really know all that much more about a 400. Now the reason the 400+ has so many tubes, from my understanding, is so that the power tubes distributed the current flowing through them and as a result end up lasting a lot longer. I don't find the 400+ to look all that destructible, it actually seems more reliable than the ampegs to me from experiences I've heard. I have mine in a rack and never worry about it, but if you put it into a shockmount case it will be indestructible (and you won't have to worry about road vibrations on your tubes).
I hear nothing but amazing things about the sound of a VR. I've always wanted to try one out, but can't really afford having two heads. Something I want to remind you of since you say you will be touring, is the ampeg is HEAVY (and big but that's me). The last thing I'd like to say is that I've heard Mesa amps LOVE interacting with effects, ampegs work well with them I'm sure, I just had more fun with effects on my sound with the mesa than an svt-2pro and I've heard others comment on this.
No matter which head you go with you will be happy with an all tube amp. I just believe when you tour with a head (especially all tube) there are other things to take into consideration than sound. Owning a 400+ I feel I can tell you all the other pros of it since a lot of people on this thread have covered the sound of each head. Best of luck.
If you go with the Traynor, make sure it's the YBA200-2 model. Out of the B-15N, SVT-AV and the YBA200-2, I've been using the Traynor the most. To me it sounds very close to the B-15 with more power.
THIS is actually super important to me and something that has TOTALLY slipped my mind until you brought it up.
Hmm... wish guitar center didn't mind me rolling in with a full-on pedal board...
I dunno the technical aspects... but my effects act differently between my 3 heads and my combo. It could be the voicing of the heads themselves? My pedals don't really like my GK... but LOVE the Peavey Mark VI...
okcrum
in your chest
^^^^
This, in spades.
There are two types of nonlinearity in tubes that people identify as the "tube sound":
1) The output tubes + transformer going into compression, and
2) Swinging a preamp tube into the area of its operating curve where it starts to gradually go nonlinear.
I'd call #1 the SVT sound (loud form), and #2 the warm sound, just to simplify.
Both can be nice to the ears. You can even do #2 in strange ways like some of the stages misidentified as "marketing tubes" in hybrid amps.
- Apr 3, 2003
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True story. That Fusion 550 is a beast, and it sounds fantastic, IMHO.
*mental note* also on my "to try" list
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,951
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
So from the testing... my top pickes were:
1. Ampeg VR (OMG SO GOOD, so expensive :scowl
2. Mesa 400+ (i wince at the seeming destructability though)
3. Traynor YBA-200 (do like!)
4. Peavey Tour VB-2 (need to look into it more)
5. Eden 300T (also needs more investigation)
This 'jump to tubes' has been SUPER fun so far! I really want to find a Fender 300T... so if anyone in the DC/MD area knows of a place that sells them, please let me know!
Keep the reccomendations coming!
That's a fine list you have, there, and I'd agree with it to a large extent (though I have only heard the 300T fairly briefly).
If you want the sound of a Bass 400+, but with less tubes, check out a Bass 400.
That YBA-200 is just stupid good for the money, ain't it? I'd love to do a steel cage deathmatch between the YBA-200 and the VB-2.
It may be out of your price range, but if you ever get a chance to hear a Reeves Custom 225, you really, really should give it a go. This is one of my all-time favorite tube heads, though it's mostly a clean machine.
Tom.
I'd challenge you to really get your head straight concerning your expectations about what a tube amp will bring to the party.
Is your current tone lacking in something? Is there a kind of sound you're after?
The challenge in doing this, is in investing the money to get set up, and then being inclined to convince yourself that tubes are better, just because you don't want to get to the end and find yourself saying "...meh....its not that much better, or different, or it even sounds farther away from my ideal tone...."
I have the gk's. Love em. I also have vb-2, svt, v4, mesa 400....they are all good too. (vb-2 is the best)
Good luck.
Is your current tone lacking in something? Is there a kind of sound you're after?
The challenge in doing this, is in investing the money to get set up, and then being inclined to convince yourself that tubes are better, just because you don't want to get to the end and find yourself saying "...meh....its not that much better, or different, or it even sounds farther away from my ideal tone...."
I have the gk's. Love em. I also have vb-2, svt, v4, mesa 400....they are all good too. (vb-2 is the best)
Good luck.
Yes. Yes i have heard a Reeves Custom. There is no pain like the GAS pain of an amp that is WAY out of your price range. :scowl: Haha, seriously though, that's on my "when i get a big promotion" list.
@Grooveman1961: I appreciate your comments. It's true, while there is inherently nothing wrong with my curent sound, I am ignorant to Tube amps as a whole. Maybe i haven't FOUND my true sound. That's why i'm out testing a butt-load of tube amps to see what speaks to me. I may very well end up saying, "i like my set up as it is", but i may find something awesome with tubes... that's all really.
No disrespect either but I'll put my 28 years of giging tube amps up against your 10. It is true most Hybrids are just not done well, but some are. To just try one or two poor examples is not the way to form a reasonable opinion. Going on 42 years playing myself.
You beat me, I've only been at it for 25- but I have owned or played Hiwatt, Ampeg, Mesa, GK, Trace, Ashdown and SWR over the years and I thought the Ashdown had the closest to real tube thumpiness, but still not quite the same thing. Certainly in your 42 years, you must have noticed a general decline in the workmanship of mass- produced gear. Every 1/2" input on anything I've bought in the last 15 years has gone bad eventually, every switch, all the plastic bits. But all my gear that's from the early 60's still works fine. I had a Gibson BR-1 guitar amp from the late 40's that sounded killer and never died (until I got stupid and sold it).
so i just had a friend nonchalantly suggested, "Dude, just get a Fender 400PS".
IF ONLY IT WERE THAT EASY :scowl:
IF ONLY IT WERE THAT EASY :scowl:
- Apr 3, 2003
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- 19,951
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Actually, there are a few of them for sale in the classifieds right now. In fact, I have one that should be on its way to me shortly.
Of course, these are pretty big, need special care when biasing, and are designed to drive 3 different loads (though you can safely use just one of the outputs, but you'll only get 1/3 the power).
Here's my 2 cents worth on getting into tube amps, try as many as you can into the same type of speaker cabinet, that your going to use it with ... then be prepared to move a amp that is somewhat heavy, my experience with the Fender Bassman 300 is good, but you'll have to spend some time fiddling with it to find a tone that you'll like ...me I dime the master, and use the pre-amp volume to control the volume, boost the bass to about the 8 setting and the treble to about 6-7, then give a little boost on the Eq graphic at 125 & 250 , I've run this amp through an Ampeg 8x10, and a Berg 425 and it's a really nice foundation rattling set-up, I also have a Ampeg V-4B and it a nice sounding amp, with a good efficient cabinet you'll get some good volume before the amp breaks-up, but for Smaller Clubs/Icehouses, it's a nice amp, but if you buy one that hasn't been serviced, you'll be spending a couple hundred dollars in getting it recapped/retubed, the other tube amp that I have, is the Peavey VB-2, it's a nice sounding amp that has a nice warm tone to it, again I dime the master and use the pre-amp volume, to control the over all volume, and I run the bass setting about 1 o'clock and the mids at about 1 o'clock and I set the frequency switch at 800, and I keep the treble at about 12 noon, best of all, that amp has the sound of the old Traynor YBA-3 and I've used it with an Ampeg 8x10 and my Berg 425 and I've been happy with it .... all the amps that I have, have the ability to drive 2-4-8 ohm speaker cabinets, and they have never given me any trouble during a gig, just don't drop them, or let then slide around and bang into the sides, in the back of a van/pick-up truck, I'd would also recommend getting head cases, so knobs/sliders don't get snapped off, it will be the best money spent, in protecting your gear ... in my opinion, the speaker cabinet has a HUGE influence in your tone, along with your fingertips
