Interesting to ponder this, and as I do, I think you are 100% correct.
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Thoughts on Keith Moon
- Thread starter Bassdude15
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Interesting to ponder this, and as I do, I think you are 100% correct.
I'd postulate that the furrowed brow and slight frown Entwistle displays on literally every second of live Who footage, when Moon was alive, dispute that statement.
In his solo stuff he used considerably less busy drummers.
I have never been a huge fan. It's hard for a band to have a busy bass player AND a busy drummer. (primus being the exception of course) But all that flailing away on the toms and not playing strong grooves has never been my thing. I MUCH prefer Bonham for vintage era drummers. Shoot, Ringo has much better feel as far as I'm concerned. His drumming is part of why I have never been a huge fan of The Who as much as other bands from the era.
No, but Jim Keltner did...
One thing [Jim] Keltner pointed out to Charlie was his habit of coming off the hi-hat with his right hand whenever he would hit a backbeat with his left. “I was never conscious of it until Jim mentioned it,” Charlie comments. “But I do it a lot. I’ve noticed it on videos, and it actually annoys me to see myself doing it. It really comes, I think, from coming down heavy on the backbeat. I don’t use that [matched] grip that Ringo uses. I did for a few years, because I thought it was popular. But then I was told to go back to the other way by Ian Stewart, who used to set up my drums. He virtually ordered me to go back to what he called ‘the proper way of playing'” Charlie laughs. “So I went back to the military grip, and I really do prefer it, but because of the amount you ride on the hi-hat, I suppose I got into the habit of pulling the other stick out of the way to get a louder sound. “I’ve never consciously done it, but a lot of times when we make a record I am consciously _not_ doing it, because sometimes you hear the beat go ‘di-dit, di-dit'” Charlie says, tapping out notes that are slightly squeezed together. “That works on some things, but other times you need it perfectly even because the mic records everything in such a nit-picky way”.
The Stones might agree with you. To quote Keith Richards: "Me and Ronnie together make a pretty good guitarist!"
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Let's not forget that they had a 14 or 15 year run with Keith, and his competence varied along the way. It's true that he was huffing and puffing and trying to keep up in the later seventies because of too much drink and drugs.
But I don't get why people are slagging his whole contribution.
Although he didn't like to play simple time, that doesn't mean he had difficulties keeping time. If you read Pete Townsend's book, he mentions that when he first asked Keith to play to a click track, Moonie had no difficulty doing it, at all. How does that fit with a poor sense of time??
Lastly, comparing Ringo and Keith is like comparing apples and flying saucers.
But I don't get why people are slagging his whole contribution.
Although he didn't like to play simple time, that doesn't mean he had difficulties keeping time. If you read Pete Townsend's book, he mentions that when he first asked Keith to play to a click track, Moonie had no difficulty doing it, at all. How does that fit with a poor sense of time??
Lastly, comparing Ringo and Keith is like comparing apples and flying saucers.
The cool thing about Ginger is his son Kofi who plays almost once a month at the Baked Potato in LA and does a kick ass Cream Tribute! Also a great drummer.
This may be an aside or not, but I personally find it difficult to separate any of The Who as individual musicians from the group. As isolated individuals, it is easy to pick at details, as it is with anyone. But as a group, they were incredibly successful despite their many differences (both from the status quo and within the group) and produced both some truly great and truly mental music at a time when most people were playing "silly love songs". The very fact that we are still here discussing them today, long after most of their musical peers have been long forgotten, is testimony enough IMHO.
I say this in good humor but I don't think there's a single recorded instance of Keith Moon ever even *using* a hi hat. They used a session guy on Can't Explain and there's some hi hat there.....but.....
I would agree with nearly all of this. Although I fail to see which of their peers have been forgotten. We speak of most of them here frequently.
I agree. I always heard the tempo in his playing, even the stuff not recorded with a click.
Listen to Daltrey in the video below at the 1:58 minute mark.
"It sounds like it's completely random, but it's not, it's completely on the button all the time."
I should have been clearer. We speak commonly of the successful parts of the British Invasion...Beatles, Stones, Who, Clapton and Cream, et al. But just like today, for every one great success, there were many other bands that were one hit wonders or never made it at all. For The Who to have succeeded as wildly as they did under their discordant circumstances, bucking many conventions of their era, was really quite remarkable.
A percussionist that could not be bothered with keeping time! A virtuoso in his genre but not a guy I would like to play with.
Townshend and Entwhistle had to work out who is going to be the clock between themselves on each song. They could not expect Moon to do the mundane details of being a drummer.
Townshend and Entwhistle had to work out who is going to be the clock between themselves on each song. They could not expect Moon to do the mundane details of being a drummer.
