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Thoughts on the bass "over-player"

#142
Brad Johnson said:
You might be in the wrong band.

I do like the idea that you can narrow down why people aren't dancing to one thing. Couldn't be poor song selection or any other number of issues, it must be the busy bassplayer. Couldn't be that the other musicians can't hang with him. And so on.
;)
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I'm narrowing it down to the thing we're talking about, but yeah, there could be more than one reason that a dance band isn't getting people on the dance floor. A terrible drummer will empty the floor as quick (maybe quicker than?) an incompetent (or overly competent) bass player.
 
#144
DrMole said:
I can only criticize those who play worse than me. That number remains in single digits.

Have and always will remain in awe of fantastic technical players, especially those who play within the context of the performance.

Played with a bunch of Berklee and GIT attendees and grads throughout my band life- mostly 25 years hence...I was pleased as a musician to at least jam with every one of them, fortunate to be in a group with a few and blessed to make significant music with two- being pushed musically by these guys was ALWAYS a plus even if the guitar player copped a few Autumn Leaves runs in the middle of a Poison song :)
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You can criticize anyone at any level.

The problem here is people equating "busy" with bad. Rocco Prestia is busy as heck. Jamerson was too. There's good busy and not so good but folks seem to want to make it all one side of a black and white issue.
 
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#145
If you have any questions about where I stand on the issue of over playing, please refer to my signature.

I also will paraphrase what a very wise and funky man once said regarding the bass, "if you don't feel the note don't play it."

He may or may not have also said, "always play on the one and don't fake the funk."
 
#146
HubbardsFate said:
I'm narrowing it down to the thing we're talking about, but yeah, there could be more than one reason that a dance band isn't getting people on the dance floor. A terrible drummer will empty the floor as quick (maybe quicker than?) an incompetent (or overly competent) bass player.
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I get that but that's a common issue when identifying problems. You can end up going in circles while you miss the real problem.

Saw it again yesterday. A friend brought in a high end cabinet to trade for another one. As we tested out his old cabinet we asked why he was getting rid of it. It was because it wouldn't handle a low B. Turned out it handled a low B great with my amp and his lower powered head wasn't up to the job. But he had already gotten rid of a perfectly good cab.

Some musicians don't click. I've seen groups go through multiple people at one position until they realized the problem was the drag from another position causing the issue
 
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#147
DrMole said:
In total agreement that busy does not =bad.
Probably the guys that drew me in to bass ( Lee, Squire, Harris, Butler, Claypool) would at times ALL be considered busy.

The issue really comes down to a player, their taste and awareness of the big pic.
As has been mentioned throughout this thread, there are performances filled with incredible playing by talented guys, famous and unknown that can go to either side of this argument.

And I am only semi kidding about my playing; there are at least 100
players out there I can smoke :-)

Yes, we can criticize any level- as a new member, and part time bassist now looking to "get real" on bass- honesty is probably my best route to improving ;-)
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#149
Nephilymbass said:
It depends. I don’t mind flashy playing if it suits the song. For covers I tend to play pretty close to the original song though. Over the years I’ve recorded a lot of originals music with different bands and sometimes an entire song was just three notes. Like this
Song the verse is literally E,C,D and the chorus is C,D,E. Super simple.
sometimes i play what are essentially bass solos in the middle of a song. For example on this song if you listen around the 2:00 mark it’s basically a simple bass solo all above the 12th fret.
For covers like I said I tend to stay pretty close to the original. Sometimes things are changed to suit the singer. For example this song is played in a different key than the cranberries version and a little faster but the basslines are otherwise unchanged for most of the song.
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Thanks for sharing! Nice “solo” playing on the second song. Luv it.
 
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#150
I used to be the overplayer, adding fills and flourishes all over cover tunes. With maturity came wisdom and so, if I play covers now, I try to stick to the original parts unless the band is drastically rearranging it.

Now that I play mainly originals, I play whatever the F I feel like playing. Hold down the bottom, lock in with the drums (including fills), doubling some tasty runs with the guitarist, playing fills where I think they ought to be... way more fun to come up with your own parts than copying someone else's.

YMMV.
 
#151
JimB52 said:
If you have any questions about where I stand on the issue of over playing, please refer to my signature.

I also will paraphrase what a very wise and funky man once said regarding the bass, "if you don't feel the note don't play it."

He may or may not have also said, "always play on the one and don't fake the funk."
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Always play on the one always struck me as oversimplistic... and just plain wrong.

And if you feel a cluster of notes, which rule should you follow?
:D
 
#153
Charlzm said:
I used to be the overplayer, adding fills and flourishes all over cover tunes. With maturity came wisdom and so, if I play covers now, I try to stick to the original parts unless the band is drastically rearranging it.

Now that I play mainly originals, I play whatever the F I feel like playing. Hold down the bottom, lock in with the drums (including fills), doubling some tasty runs with the guitarist, playing fills where I think they ought to be... way more fun to come up with your own parts than copying someone else's.

YMMV.
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I find the same to be no less true with covers.

I know people who'd complain if you didn't play a P bass on a song recorded with a P bass. I find those people to be ridiculous. What I'm holding isn't as important as what I'm doing with it. What's next... match the outfit on the cover?
;(
 
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#154
QORC said:
I'm more the pocket guy who tries to stick as close the original (or live) recording of the well known song.
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That's me... Just because you know a lot of theory and scales doesn't mean that you should run all over a great classic song just to show off your chops to everyone.

I can honestly say that I never really tried to copy a lot of songs note for note, but I do like to lock down a groove with the drummer and keep room open in the song for lead or keyboard to embellish changes when it "feels right". If I'm not feeling the music more than just playing music then why bother... :)
 
#155
This is actually an interesting topic. When I am first playing a cover song with a band, I will always dumb it down unless it is already super straight forward. You have to learn exactly what everyone else is going to be doing before you can just add stuff in. I absolutely hate it when bass players step on vocals, very amateurish, but I see a huge number of players doing it. So, I start out by playing the basic part and over time add in any flourishes that the song has after I learn what other people are doing because even though they may think they are doing exactly what is on the recording, they NEVER are.
 
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#156
BooDoggie said:
That's me... Just because you know a lot of theory and scales doesn't mean that you should run all over a great classic song just to show off your chops to everyone.

I can honestly say that I never really tried to copy a lot of songs note for note, but I do like to lock down a groove with the drummer and keep room open in the song for lead or keyboard to embellish changes when it "feels right". If I'm not feeling the music more than just playing music then why bother... :)
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Because of how my memory works I know tons of songs note for note. In fact entire arrangements. But that also makes it easier to deviate because I have the structure down. And what I do with fills isn't really based on scales because I love the tension accidentals can yield way too much to be locked down. If it seems like a good idea and I can stick the landing, cool. I also make a point of not going into a trance and screwing up a groove.
:D

I recently did an old school funk, R&B and classic rock gig, the substitute trumpet player kept turning around, grinning whenever I would pick a spot. I picked a lot of spots during the course of the gig. The dance floor stayed packed all night.

At the end of the gig he told the sax player he was having way too much fun listening to what I was doing. The sax player, also smiling said "Yeah, he plays with confidence".

Great compliment.
 
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#158
When I play covers, I play as close to the original song as possible. People want to hear songs they way they know them. Unless your famous, they really don't want to hear someone else's interpretation. I've seen many bands who do their own version and the majority of comments I've heard from people in the venue is "they're not playing that right" or "that's not how that song goes".
 
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#159
lfmn16 said:
It doesn't matter how you try to legitimize the "serve the song" BS, it's still opinion. What you see as excess, they see as appropriate.
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Really? Remember, there's experiences/educated opinions and butthole surfer opinions. It's like any artist's design, you could do what the hell you want, if you know what you're doing. IMHO, of course.
 

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