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Sigh. We're getting more and more of these "gigs" that don't pay being offered and we have decided to pass on all of them. I'd rather not play at all than play under conditions where everyone is making money but us, to be honest.
ETA: the latest we just took a hard pass on would have ended up with each band member getting $25, while supplying our own rigs as backline for all the other bands for four hours. Including our PA and mics. I replied with the phone number for our local SIR and one word: "no".
ETA: the latest we just took a hard pass on would have ended up with each band member getting $25, while supplying our own rigs as backline for all the other bands for four hours. Including our PA and mics. I replied with the phone number for our local SIR and one word: "no".
My son works for a Park District and they have specific yearly budgets, which they cannot exceed .... or... overspend. As previously mentioned any community sponsored event cannot be made a for profit event.
Trust me they get in huge trouble as I hear it from him whenever he is doing budgets for the various programs, including "concerts in the park".
Sponsors are generally acquired through village businesses wanting to promote themselves in the community in which they reside and must submit their request though his office, although he may pursue them to generate "revenue". Anyway my 2c.
Trust me they get in huge trouble as I hear it from him whenever he is doing budgets for the various programs, including "concerts in the park".
Sponsors are generally acquired through village businesses wanting to promote themselves in the community in which they reside and must submit their request though his office, although he may pursue them to generate "revenue". Anyway my 2c.
But this gig does pay - if you have a following. If the Rolling Stones held a concert at Fenway Park and nobody bought tickets, there wouldn't be a concert. But they will sell out all of the tickets because they can fill a stadium. Their loyal, ticket-buying fanbase is their product to venues. If band can't bring people out, then they're just background entertainment and that's worth ~2-300 per night. About the same cost as a DJ.
I run community festivals and would never propose anything like this to the music acts. Plus, we don't even charge an admission fee for the festivals.
It sounds like they are not very good music venue business people.
P.S. What does he mean by they provide the lights? Is that 2 100 watt light bulbs hanging from the gazebo rafters?
It sounds like they are not very good music venue business people.
P.S. What does he mean by they provide the lights? Is that 2 100 watt light bulbs hanging from the gazebo rafters?
When I read this, it got more and more ridiculous as I got into it. I started thinking "What a X%$@#$ [insert pejorative noun] this %^&%$#^&*%$ [insert another pejorative noun] is.
All they have is a venue I assume is paid for by tax revenues, and want the musicians to organize the event while the government takes all the proceeds. What a bunch of %$^#$%^& [insert another pejorative noun here]. I would tell this *&*()*&^$#@# [insert an increasingly pejorative noun here] to take a &^&%^$$%#@#$ hike".
Just kidding, it didn't occur to me that way, but it read more and more ridiculous as it went on.
All he's got is a venue and maybe some built-in lights. That's it. And private restaurant owners are willing to let you have the place FOR FREE if you can draw a crowd, and will give you far more of the door. You get to keep all the sponsorship money if you decide to sell such a sponsorship.
He knows he's asking a lot of you guys, that is why he mentioned that it might 'sound harsh'.
I'd write him back indicating what the true state of affairs are for musicians. I would indicate that venues are willing to give the venue away for free, allow you to charge at the door, and will even give you a guaranteed amount (like a leader fee) for arranging it all. Some just pay you to show up and play and go home. They take nothing off the top.
I would remind him the cost of sound and what it takes to pull off a good sounding band for x hours as well as the years of training. I would also indicate I wasn't too excited about putting on what is essentially a fundraiser for one of the largest taxation authorities in the region. Probably end with an expression of surprise that he would even ask that much of a group.
Indicate your rates, the deal you could accept, what you would expect of him in terms of doing his own promotion, and how much it costs for you to perform with, or without a system provided. I would give him the names of a couple more bands I KNOW wouldn't go for this deal, and let him experience 3 or 4 other bands who all spurn his ridiculous offer, so he can see the music business really has changed. I'd make sure these bands knew I did it, and that the point was to help this guy see what it's really like out there with decent bands.
I'd finally indicate that my schedule is as full as I want it with corporate, wedding gigs that don't require any of this work outside of music.
And I'm NOT bitter (just kidding
)Incidentally, when our county puts on an event, we get paid about $150 more than the going rate in our town for a 50 minute gig. We get a green room behind the stage (a tent area with sodas, drinks, a mirror for straightening ourselves up) and professional sound. We are asked to promote the event to our following, but this is not required; it is requested as a courtesy and there is no measurement or censure if no one comes from our personal contacts.
I would also share that.
This to me is a good reason one of our past presidents called government "the enemy of the people". Yes, they provide essential services, and a good government is worth paying for to a certain extent, but as a monopoly, they can get really out of hand unless the people stand up to them -- as I would in this situation. I presume the taxpayers bought that facility -- they should have the use of it without all these restrictions and should be paid to perform at it.
Also, I worked with a for-profit event planner who tried to put this on me once, and I did something like it. Not as bad, but it cost me money and the band performed for free. If we sold a $700 sponsorship we got 70% of the proceeds. I went to meetings and tried to sell a sponsorship and no one cared.
My reward? She told another event planner what we did, and this other event planner came to me expecting the same deal! They dangled carrots and made promises but never followed through.
Atrocious deal -- glad you rejected it!
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MDBass
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Having 150 people show up to pay $15, only after you’ve secured the venue additional money through sponsors to ensure that “low” ticket rate, to see you play at a gazebo?
Having 150 people show up to pay $15, only after you’ve secured the venue additional money through sponsors to ensure that “low” ticket rate, to see you play at a gazebo?
Everyone keeps saying "gazebo" but I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. The outdoor venues used for summer concerts here are pretty nice. But if your band has no following, I can see how this would not be appealing. They're fully booked, enough bands do find it attractive.
That’s the type of offer you can pick up anytime you want - right off the stable floor with a pitchfork.
Nice to see the town is offering low priced and free tickets and financing it by taking it out of the performers pockets. Talk about “other people’s money”!!!
Somebody in the municipality must have done some “research” by talking to some club owners “in the biz” about how it works.
You did well to pass.
Nice to see the town is offering low priced and free tickets and financing it by taking it out of the performers pockets. Talk about “other people’s money”!!!
Somebody in the municipality must have done some “research” by talking to some club owners “in the biz” about how it works.
You did well to pass.
Those national acts have not agreed to this. Period. National touring acts don't "play for the door". A notional act has a booking agent and a road manager (even if they are playing smaller venues). A booking agent would laugh at this.
Now, let's address the obvious scam. If it's a city park, it can't "go out of business". It can either be funded by local government or not. Period. If a local park is depending on outside funding to "stay in business" then it seeks local corporate donors to sponsor THE PARK, not individual events.
I have played ALL KINDS of "live after five" and summer concert series events. This whole setup is BS. They obviously handed over booking for these shows to a novice who has a friend in the bar business. This person went to the bar, had a few dozen beers, and "learned" how to book shows.
The way these things work is as follows. Either...
1) The town handles the event. Someone working for the city plans, books, and executes the event. Period. Sure, I have seen local corporate sponsors. There is NEVER a cover charge to see a band in a city park. A band under a gazebo is NOT a major event. It should not involve any unusual logistics/finances. A band playing an outdoor amphitheater MIGHT require a bit more work to pull off. I recently attended one of those events in a larger outdoor theater that was attended by several thousand of my fellow townspeople. It had sponsors. There are zero cover charge. Show up with chairs and have fun. Food trucks were everywhere. (I was actually quite nice.)
2) An outside organization puts on the show in cooperation with the city. The city provides power, security and parking. The promotor (be it a local charity group or an professional show promoter/booking agent/talent buyer does the rest. Fees may be paid to the city but the city isn't "running things". Some of the things mentioned in your discussion with your contact MIGHT be in play if you were dealing with a larger stage and a promoter.
A gazebo show with expectations of 150 person audience requires exactly ZERO percent of the stuff your contact brought up. This guy has Barney Fife Syndrome. He's a small player but thinks he's been granted authority over something. Therefore he is carrying himself like a promoter of a huge venue. He's a dipstick. Tell him to put his bullet back in his pocket and calm down.
Its not a wedding or private party where you get paid to play. Maybe there is overhead from their side,
like security, people working at door etc. Not my business if they make a profit. Deal is based on draw.
If you draw well it could be a good night. We play a fundraiser and take 33% of $15 ticket. Sounds like it
sucks. But at this particular gig, the attendees can BYOB and food on a beach and we get 500-600 people IF
its not raining. Good math there for sure. Enough for us to farm out a killer sound system as well. That said $400 off the top is as high as I ever heard for operating costs etc..
like security, people working at door etc. Not my business if they make a profit. Deal is based on draw.
If you draw well it could be a good night. We play a fundraiser and take 33% of $15 ticket. Sounds like it
sucks. But at this particular gig, the attendees can BYOB and food on a beach and we get 500-600 people IF
its not raining. Good math there for sure. Enough for us to farm out a killer sound system as well. That said $400 off the top is as high as I ever heard for operating costs etc..
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Good call giving the Passeroo to that one.
There's alot to hate about that gig, but the "first 400 to the venue" and the assumption that attendees are going to pay $15 each for a park concert are easy reasons to say no-thanks.
I was in a group that one summer did a bunch of park-district gigs. For some of them we had to provide our own sound and lights but IIRC, none of the gigs paid less than a flat fee of $1100 and none had weird profit-sharing arrangements between venue and band.
There's alot to hate about that gig, but the "first 400 to the venue" and the assumption that attendees are going to pay $15 each for a park concert are easy reasons to say no-thanks.
I was in a group that one summer did a bunch of park-district gigs. For some of them we had to provide our own sound and lights but IIRC, none of the gigs paid less than a flat fee of $1100 and none had weird profit-sharing arrangements between venue and band.
My reply: "I have a sound system you can rent for _________ dollars. Interested?"
One other thought, if there really are gigs-with-cover happening here I wonder if the city has sold or contracted exclusive booking and shows to an outside "promoter". That would explain the weird policies that appear to be the promotor grabbing money every way they can.
