Thoughts on this venue's conditions for a gig?

[DJ Bebop]

"...the music business has changed, and the business side has to work, or……..the venue is no longer in business."

How exactly does a gazebo in a public park go out of business? Do you have 150 people willing to pay $15 to see you or does the venue attract that many people regardless of who is playing?

And you have to provide sound for you and others? Sounds like the Township is involved in "Pay to Play"
Meshuggah!

 

[rtslinger]

A community near me has concerts at a gazebo in a local park. I inquired to the organizer about playing there and his response is below (lightly edited to remove irrelevant info and protect the innocent). I'm curious about reactions to this.

...you provide sound system, we provide lights, you provide sound for opening act, first $400 goes to [name of venue], you get 75% of the balance, and……….95% of our patrons are here for the performer - if it’s [name of performer] nite, 95% of the patrons are here to see [name of performer]. So, do you have a following? If you get 150 at $15 per person, that’s $2250 minus $400 x 75%.
If that looks good to you, I’m interested…..AND one last thing - almost all the local acts get me sponsors…….the sponsors keep the admission at a low $15 and kids free. If any guys in your band can find a sponsor, that helps. I hope this does not sound too harsh, but the music business has changed, and the business side has to work, or……..the venue is no longer in business.​

I should add that the venue in question is a Township-owned park, not a private enterprise, and the local Township is a sponsor and there are multiple other corporate sponsors already in place.

After discussing with my band mates, we decided to pass. It didn't feel right to us.

Thoughts?

Walk away is what I would have done as well
they should added (if name of performer) has the same car as any of your band mates patrons are here to see (name of performer) L= Losers

 

[DirtDog]

Ridiculous for a township owned facility. That not how concerts in the park usually work. And charging an entrance fee?

It appears they don’t have the budget for what they are trying to do. Unless, of course, it’s a promoter as middleman that you’re dealing with. I also think his $2K+ revenue/earnings estimate is whacked.

I’d say thanks but no thanks.

Not to mention conflict of interest if you find a sponsor that, say, is bidding on a township contract?

 

[electracoyote]

I don't like it. Far too many variables and ways for the organizer to say you didn't bring it hard enough and you guys walk away empty-handed (or close to it). Even if the math looks good up front, you have no way of verifying some of these details, and they know it.

If they want to be sure they and the band get paid, they should offer you a guaranteed set fee and then do whatever they have to do to make sure patrons/attendees foot the bill for whatever their financial goal is above the band fee. Why is all the risk always on the band in these scenarios?

 

[DoctorZee]

Everyone keeps saying "gazebo" but I didn't see that mentioned anywhere.

It's literally in the first sentence of the OP.

 

[MDBass]

Everyone keeps saying "gazebo" but I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. The outdoor venues used for summer concerts here are pretty nice. But if your band has no following, I can see how this would not be appealing. They're fully booked, enough bands do find it attractive.

The gazebo is mentioned in the very first sentence of the post, not sure how you’re missing it.

We have no idea if the other bands are being offered the same deal, but I can guarantee you the national acts evidently playing there have a guarantee (not a door split) and aren’t providing the sound system.

The national bands I play with also get a guarantee, not a door split: that’s what happens when you have a legitimate following.

 

[Jimmy4string]

 

[fdeck]

My impression is that this is basically a "playing for the door" gig, with a few minor wrinkles such as supporting an opening band that is probably playing for free. So, it's worth it if you can make your nut off the door. Otherwise not.

 

[TheReceder]

Don't know about the rest of you... but it's been too long since I did any algebra. I'd have had to pass because after doing the math I might have had to pay the town to play there.

 

[juancaminos]

Yeah I'd pass as well

 

[gln1955]

A community concert in the park that has a cover charge is not something I've ever seen.Is this really being put on by the community or is it just someone renting the gazebo for the night to make a buck?

 

[buldog5151bass]

Sounds like the town contracted put these concerts. No way. I'm doing two town concerts this summer. Both pay a decent fee for a fairly short and low key show.

 

[Nephilymbass]

I’d pass. Too many red flags

Odd way of financing a public park show imo. I’ve played a lot of outdoor stuff and the band always knows up front what we’ll get paid or if it’s a freebie. I wouldn’t gamble on selling tickets for a park show. It’s tough to get people to buy tickets to see a show in a public park where there’s no real way to really make sure people paid. Being a public park people justifiably feel like “my taxes helped pay for it so why should I buy tickets” Could end up with a situation where a lot of people go for free and the money doesn’t match the headcount or those who did pay are angry because it gets out that others didn’t pay. Are you gonna put up a barrier all the way around the place and hire security to chase down and remove people who didn’t pay? That cost money also. The outdoor park stuff I’ve played is Typically financed two different ways. One, they get a couple sponsors for example the local rock radio station and the local Harley Davidson dealership will pay for sound and the bands play for free, or for the big festivals we play what they actually do is charge vendor fees for the food and beer trucks. This allows these events to be free to attend. The festival park here in my town

has a nice giant stage we’ve played

Now the budget is limited doing that style of gig because the PA demands are pretty costly. So yeah our town doesn’t have Metallica or the foo fighters playing that stage but not being able to sell tickets for public park concerts is actually one of the reasons my city decided to build a minor league baseball park. It allows them to do ticket sales for outdoor concerts and keep out the people who didn’t buy tickets from just walking up. It also provided seating for people who want it (one of the main complaints about festival park)

But going back to the numbers. The baseball stadium is brand new here. It just opened a few weeks ago. So I don’t know the details yet but the only venue I’ve played in my town that asks for a bunch of money to have a show is the coliseum lol last I heard they were at $2800 to hold an event there which is understandable considering how much it cost to keep the lights and ac going but of course they also make money other ways like selling year round VIP booths to local businesses and have their own deals with vendors like papa johns pizza and stuff

But yeah I wouldn’t risk it. You could have 300 people show up and only 50 of them actually buy a ticket pay and you’re basically playing for free and coming out of pocket for sound.

 

[Basshappi]

 

[Lava]

Um, no...
So many things wrong with this situation.

 

[bigswifty1]

Woeful. A simple "No" seems somehow inadequate.

 

[lermgalieu]

They lost me at requiring the band to bring the sound

 

[LordRyan]

Sounds like it's meant to confuse and make you think you might come out with some good money when it will probably turn out otherwise. If they can't come up with a decent flat fee or acceptable minimum I'd pass. I have an outdoor municipal concert coming up in a couple of weeks. No other bands, no cover, sound/lights provided and a simple flat fee of $2900 which is split four ways by the band members.

 

[farace]

Besides all the "no," I'm wondering who is getting that unmentioned 25% after you've taken your 75% of the leftovers. Are they really getting $400 plus that 25%?

My partner was acquainted with the Neville Brothers back in the day, and this reminds me of something Charles Neville told her about promoters: "They think they poop ice cream [he used a different word for poop, but this is TB], and they expect you to follow them around with a cone!"

 

[Febs]

Those national acts have not agreed to this. Period. National touring acts don't "play for the door". A notional act has a booking agent and a road manager (even if they are playing smaller venues). A booking agent would laugh at this.

Now, let's address the obvious scam. If it's a city park, it can't "go out of business". It can either be funded by local government or not. Period. If a local park is depending on outside funding to "stay in business" then it seeks local corporate donors to sponsor THE PARK, not individual events.

I have played ALL KINDS of "live after five" and summer concert series events. This whole setup is BS. They obviously handed over booking for these shows to a novice who has a friend in the bar business. This person went to the bar, had a few dozen beers, and "learned" how to book shows.

The way these things work is as follows. Either...

1) The town handles the event. Someone working for the city plans, books, and executes the event. Period. Sure, I have seen local corporate sponsors. There is NEVER a cover charge to see a band in a city park. A band under a gazebo is NOT a major event. It should not involve any unusual logistics/finances. A band playing an outdoor amphitheater MIGHT require a bit more work to pull off. I recently attended one of those events in a larger outdoor theater that was attended by several thousand of my fellow townspeople. It had sponsors. There are zero cover charge. Show up with chairs and have fun. Food trucks were everywhere. (I was actually quite nice.)

2) An outside organization puts on the show in cooperation with the city. The city provides power, security and parking. The promotor (be it a local charity group or an professional show promoter/booking agent/talent buyer does the rest. Fees may be paid to the city but the city isn't "running things". Some of the things mentioned in your discussion with your contact MIGHT be in play if you were dealing with a larger stage and a promoter.

A gazebo show with expectations of 150 person audience requires exactly ZERO percent of the stuff your contact brought up. This guy has Barney Fife Syndrome. He's a small player but thinks he's been granted authority over something. Therefore he is carrying himself like a promoter of a huge venue. He's a dipstick. Tell him to put his bullet back in his pocket and calm down.
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Just to follow up on my prior post, and now that I realize you're talking about a venue somewhere in Philly, everything that @two fingers writes here is consistent with my experience in the Philadelphia area. I've played -- and booked -- many, many of these types of outdoor municipal shows throughout this area from Philly to Exton, Media, Chester, Lansdale, Conshohocken, East Norriton, Blue Bell, Ridley Park, Skippack, Phoenixville, various locations in South Jersey, and many more. The municipalities provide these concert series as a service to their residents and the surrounding communities. They budget for them, and many obtain sponsorships for the series to supplement that budget and offset the cost of the events. There is never a cover charge. The band is always paid based on a negotiated flat-rate fee. Usually the venue provides sound, but sometimes the band provides sound and we negotiate the cost of that into our fee.

In 20 years of doing those types of shows, I've never heard of one in the Philadelphia area where the venue charges a cover and the band is paid a percentage of the door, nor have I ever heard of one where any individual band booked as part of the series has any responsibility for obtaining sponsors.

Hence my original, "no way."