Threshold of pain, Thunder!

[flameworker]

I have always used 120db at about 20 feet without distortion, as my standard measure of a loud clean bass amp.

I have now discovered that is when hearing damage starts...

Is there an industry standard? Is that too loud,? (I don't necessarily play that loud, I just like to know the headroom is there)
Is 20 feet a good place to measure?

When people bring kids, we always supply those colored foam rubber ear pkugs. Have a little plastic fishbowl of em. Always also try to keep some on edge of stage for speaker tweakers.

 

[B-string]

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[Burwabit]

I've been researching this a lot lately and am certainly no expert but I understand that damage occurs way before 120 dB. https://www.westone.com/defendear/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92&Itemid=111
It has to do with length of exposure and the dB level. 120 dB is pretty loud.

Are you asking about a clean headroom standard or reasonable volume for audience or something else?

 

[flameworker]

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I've been researching this a lot lately and am certainly no expert but I understand that damage occurs way before 120 dB. https://www.westone.com/defendear/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92&Itemid=111
It has to do with length of exposure and the dB level. 120 dB is pretty loud.

Are you asking about a clean headroom standard or reasonable volume for audience or something else?

A clean headroom standard. I used to play in a crazy loud biker band, you couldn't hear a word shouted in your ear from 40 feet in front of the mains, that was way too loud.

When I was two I used to curl up an sleep in one of my dad's kick drums while he was playing, I don't have hearing loss, but I do have a little tenitus.

At the same time, too quiet is no good either, I saw David Grisman once where it was too quiet and people started talking to each other. He actually stopped and yelled at the audience, said if they didn't shut up he was going home!!
I guess I was mostly wondering if loudness was tested in some way by amp companies.

 

[B-string]

Our range is 95-105db at the front of the audience. We grow our audience through the night, lose very few. The venues seem maximize sales, we are told this by the venues owners and often get paid a little extra.

 

[RoadRanger]

85 db is the loudest SPL safe for 8 hours of exposure - anything louder has to be even more limited in time:
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The max safe exposure for a mere 115 db (well under your 120 db) is under 30 seconds !

 

[waltdogg]

85 db is the loudest SPL safe for 8 hours of exposure - anything louder has to be even more limited in time:
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The max safe exposure for a mere 115 db (well under your 120 db) is under 30 seconds !

Definitely did some damage today then...

 

[flameworker]

85 db is the loudest SPL safe for 8 hours of exposure - anything louder has to be even more limited in time:
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The max safe exposure for a mere 115 db (well under your 120 db) is under 30 seconds !

Wow, that's crazy, 85? I had no idea it was that low. We'll we are all screwed then!

I had a weekly in CA, If we exceeded 85 db at the SIDEWALK out front, we would get a $130 fine. Cop would stand out there with a meter and a ticket book. My brother came to visit and he went and bought his own meter (that's why I have one still) he posted up and warned us.

85, outside at several yards, thru a double door , was hard not to spike. I'm pretty sure most drummers hit around 110-115 alone. The parabolic scale db is measured with makes it tricky to estimate. Huge difference from 119 to 120. I kind of wish there was a more linear measurement system.

 

[Jim Carr]

Get a figgin db meter app for your phone—Edit: No that is not enough! See, posts below.

It's all about the duration, but I would never allow my unprotected ears to be on stage or in an audience EVER (except for unamplified music). I am always saddened and shocked by how careless nearly ALL of my musical colleagues are with their hearing.

But this is rather extraordinary. Subjecting any audience to 120 db is, IMHO, so irresponsible as to be considered a threat to public health. No amount of putting ear plugs in plastic fishbowls erases the damage you have done and are doing to people who have been willing to come to your performance.

Let me see:

Musical "artist"? check.
Public performance? check.
120 db sound levels routine at performance? check.
Permanently crush/kill hair cells in the ears of my audience, including children? check.
Am I a musical terrorist/rapist?

I would ask myself if my "art" justifies the harm it has done and can do. Sorry, but I find producing 120 db EVER to be an outrage in an environment where the public is invited—unless your average venue is outdoors on the main stage of the Ohio State Fair.

 

[agedhorse]

Most cell phone microphones overload WAY before 120dB so they will indicate inaccurately.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Hardware (even cheap hardware) trumps an app for this job. Expensive reference-quality hardware is not required unless you are purporting to publish accurate speaker curves or the like and snarky folks are going to pick apart your entire measurement scheme. Between $20-70 there are plenty of functional dB meters that are close enough for practical purposes. Your cell phone is not one of them.

That's "logarithmic" not parabolic, and there are good reasons for it having to do with how hearing works.

I remember being able to hear bats, but that's LONG gone now. 20 years ago I was down to 16K/12K left/right - I'm right handed - there's a simple, somewhat obvious explanation.

 

[Jim Carr]

Most cell phone microphones overload WAY before 120dB so they will indicate inaccurately.

Yipes!

 

[ddnidd1]

A clean headroom standard. I used to play in a crazy loud biker band, you couldn't hear a word shouted in your ear from 40 feet in front of the mains, that was way too loud.

When I was two I used to curl up an sleep in one of my dad's kick drums while he was playing, I don't have hearing loss, but I do have a little tenitus.

At the same time, too quiet is no good either, I saw David Grisman once where it was too quiet and people started talking to each other. He actually stopped and yelled at the audience, said if they didn't shut up he was going home!!
I guess I was mostly wondering if loudness was tested in some way by amp companies.

The most common cause of tinnitus is Hearing Loss. From the conditions you describe, you very probably do have hearing loss. You just don't know it.

 

[Jim Carr]

The most common cause of tinnitus is Hearing Loss. From the conditions you describe, you very probably do have hearing loss. You just don't know it.

@flameworker — Get some health insurance (ACA, Mom's or whatever) and have a real hearing test. Now.

 

[mntngrown]

You look fairly young, so you may not notice any loss yet. I retired from a career known to cause hearing damage so I took a sophisticated audiologist booth test. The technician said she never had anyone score a perfect result before. Then I got back into playing in bands, and suffered some heavy handed drummers, and loud guitarists. I now have significant high frequency loss. The damage is cumulative according to what I read. So let's just say you have 500 cilia for a certain frequency, and so far you have broken off 400 of them? Not too late? But it can be. Another thing I found out while reading, is that my willingness to take advantage of the free beers the clubs offer, actually relaxes more than inhibitions, and stage fright. Your ears' ability to protect themselves is impaired too. I won't play with loud drummers or guitarists anymore. Tinnitus can cause mental problems too. Some people get suicidal when bothered by bad tinnitus. I did not do research right before this response, just going from memory.

 

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custom ear plugs with linear filters are the best 150 you can spend.

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

It's fine to be able to play cleanly at 120dB.
It's not OK to actually do it.
I like to be able to hear the guitar tell me stuff from across the stage.
Yeah, he may have to yell, but it needs to be doable or it's too loud.

Full disclosure, I have very little hearing over 1K and permanant tinnitus.
I miss hearing birds chirp and being able to find little squeaks it things.

On the other hand, I am no longer bothered be thing slike little sqeaks.

 

[hsech]

Under $15 on eBay:

 

[hsech]

I've been wearing hearing aids for three years now. I don't wear them at practice or gigs. We hold practice down to a reasonable level and I wear musicians ear plugs when we gig. Permanent hearing loss is no fun. Once you really damage your hearing, it doesn't come back, you can't fix it, you are scre#d. One of the quickest ways to chase off an audience in a bar is to play at outside concert levels.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I have always used 120db at about 20 feet without distortion, as my standard measure of a loud clean bass amp.

I have now discovered that is when hearing damage starts...

What ya' say, sonny? Speak up, I can't hear ya'!

I left the last band I was in because they thought practicing in a small room at an average of 110-115dB was no big deal and not really all that loud.