Thunderbird Club

[PillO]

Makes sense. And if the Eppi Trial is successful Gibson will promptly discontinue the USA Thunderbird for another two years so they can bring it back later with only 80% of the retro features in three colors and charge 30% more for it. Unfortunately they have a track record of killing great products, I wish it weren't so. In the meantime I'm enjoying my VP.

I suspect that two things are happening. First, I don't think that market research is being done and/or properly considered. Second, I suspect that the vast majority of management time in the last year has been spent preparing for the debt maturity this summer.

First obvious question - why would you not do/ignore market research? Given what the CEO did previously I expect that there is a bit of arrogance at play, so I suspect that he believes that he is smarter than the market and everyone else. Further, he probably believes that his intuitive numeracy is more accurate than anyone's accounting and analysis.

Second obvious question - why does it take a year to prepare for debt maturity? It takes time to meet with bankers and investors to get a sense of how much money is available, at what price, and under what conditions. Then you have to get things worked out that you can meet the conditions and are able to pay the price of the new debt. This will be things like managing the cost of building a guitar, keeping appropriate inventory levels of both raw material and finished goods, having distributor relationships that meet needs...

 

[PillO]

Not quite true. These days all Gibsons are made in USA. Most (if not all) Epis aren't.

Correct, but things can change...

 

[Inky13]

I'm with you!!

Hey Doc, do they salt in Ontario? I'm thinking yes. I'm tired of my cars looking like big German pretzels. Plus it attracts local livestock.
I can hear the oxidation from here. Southern folk are saying "What is this lunatic talking about?"

 

[JIO]

Ok, I know this has been discussed but I am still confused. WHY is Epiphone bringing out tribute/reissues such as the Epiphone Thunderbird Vintage Pro, but Gibson won't, and it was originally a Gibson bass???

I think all should be thankful that Epiphone stepped up to the plate because if it was Gibson it would list for double the cost.

 

[theFixer]

I haven't been around much lately because of so much going on. My Grandfather I told you about has taken a bad turn. He was hospitalized for breathing problems and we found out that his lungs were only working at 20% capacity. He asked to go back to the nursing home instead of staying at the hospital, which is basically asking to die. My mother, who is handling his affairs, has decided to do as he asked. As much as it hurts all of us, it's his decision. This is a pic of Mom and Granddaddy.View attachment 2950093

Man… I'm very sorry. words escape me...

 

[veebass]

Not quite true. These days all Gibsons are made in USA. Most (if not all) Epis aren't.

How's that going for them?
I know. That is my point.
I reckon they should put a Gibson TRC on the higher end Epis (ie aren't made in the US) and charge a bit more for them, as Fender does with it's Asian and Mexican built stuff. These are priced between the Squiers and the US Fenders. All I am suggesting is that Gibson Brands (the parent company) could do the same.

They do, however, seem to avoid anything that makes any sense.

 

[Basshappi]

I haven't been around much lately because of so much going on. My Grandfather I told you about has taken a bad turn.

My condolences to you and your family.
I have been through that situation more than once and there are no words to make it any easier to bear.

 

[Count Bassie]

I haven't been around much lately because of so much going on. My Grandfather I told you about has taken a bad turn. He was hospitalized for breathing problems and we found out that his lungs were only working at 20% capacity. He asked to go back to the nursing home instead of staying at the hospital, which is basically asking to die. My mother, who is handling his affairs, has decided to do as he asked. As much as it hurts all of us, it's his decision. This is a pic of Mom and Granddaddy.View attachment 2950093

This is hard stuff, I'm very sorry about it man. My grandad was my surrogate dad much of the time, so I'm feeling this, yep. My heart goes out to you.

While you go through this, play the man, it looks like you'll be needed... and fwiw, you have a lot of simpatico, ready ears here, be sure of that. This is an on-line speakeasy, when need arises.

 

[Dr_Feelgoood212]

Hey Doc, do they salt in Ontario? I'm thinking yes. I'm tired of my cars looking like big German pretzels. Plus it attracts local livestock.
I can hear the oxidation from here. Southern folk are saying "What is this lunatic talking about?"

Oh ya! It's really is detrimental to vehicles.
Lately they've been using beet juice or something as an alternative though.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

How's that going for them?
I know. That is my point.
I reckon they should put a Gibson TRC on the higher end Epis (ie aren't made in the US) and charge a bit more for them, as Fender does with it's Asian and Mexican built stuff. These are priced between the Squiers and the US Fenders. All I am suggesting is that Gibson Brands (the parent company) could do the same.

They do, however, seem to avoid anything that makes any sense.

Agree that they missed the boat. Back in the day, no one wanted to be seen with an Epiphone (unless it was a Casino or some higher end Epi guitar) over a Gibson even though they were made in the states as well. Over here, it has always been a perceptional thing that I don't think was felt as acutely abroad.

 

[Gaolee]

I'm with you!!

I am a climate wimp for a reason. No way I'm going to live in Ohio again.

 

[Gaolee]

I suspect that two things are happening. First, I don't think that market research is being done and/or properly considered. Second, I suspect that the vast majority of management time in the last year has been spent preparing for the debt maturity this summer.

First obvious question - why would you not do/ignore market research? Given what the CEO did previously I expect that there is a bit of arrogance at play, so I suspect that he believes that he is smarter than the market and everyone else. Further, he probably believes that his intuitive numeracy is more accurate than anyone's accounting and analysis.

Second obvious question - why does it take a year to prepare for debt maturity? It takes time to meet with bankers and investors to get a sense of how much money is available, at what price, and under what conditions. Then you have to get things worked out that you can meet the conditions and are able to pay the price of the new debt. This will be things like managing the cost of building a guitar, keeping appropriate inventory levels of both raw material and finished goods, having distributor relationships that meet needs...

Being smarter than the market is all fine and good. But... If the market is dumb, you better be dumb to sell things. If the market is dumb and you are too smart, you go just as bust as if you are too dumb and the market is too smart.

The goofy thing is that there's no way to tell whether you are looking at an Epi or Gibson Thunderbird until you look at the truss rod cover. Unless you are inspecting for minor details and check to see what the finish is. A VP would badly fool a whole lot of people who don't know what they are looking at, for example. And, most people who aren't paying attention all the time would easily mistake a CP for a modern Gibson. Maybe Henry J. is trying to kill off Gibson, or maybe pump up Epiphone and then sell it.

 

[Inky13]

This is why I can't have nice things. Get off my lawn!

 

[theFixer]

So this just happened...

View attachment 2950208

I noticed we had a couple mutual friends in common so I hit the "add friend" button and he accepted.

Local legend and musical hero from my youth.

Yeah man! Cool! He's gotta place just outside of Petoskey, out in the hills & sticks. Probly 10 years ago or so, we were at the Bayview Inn in Petoskey for their Mothers Day buffet (for the artist formerly known as my mother-in-law). Our table was right by the desert table. As I was eyeballin' some chocolate truffles, the end of an extremely long braid brushed in the path of eyes. I looked up & there was Mark friggin' Farner standin' not 3 feet away from me!!! I looked around the room… & I swear… I was the only one who knew who he was! Hundreds of people all around… and nobody reacting to him at all! I had just seen Grand Funk perform in Kalamazoo about 3 weeks prior. He's still got the chops… and he's still got the pipes… and he still runs all over the stage like a teenager… and he's standing 3 feet away from me dressed in a well cut suit with a western flare, surveying the same buffet as everyone else! It was so surreal! I musta had a look about me, cuz the ex asked me what was wrong. I told her… then she instantly told her mother (a recurring event in our marriage)… pretty soon, everyone at the table was trying to get me to go talk to him. While all this was going on… I had been watching him. He had walked back over to his wife & kids, who were most likely there for Mothers Day as well. With as much as I wanted to go meet him… it was their "Mothers Day" too… I knew I couldn't do it. Still cool though

 

[JIO]

I am a climate wimp for a reason. No way I'm going to live in Ohio again.

The weather is one reason... I lived in Cincinnati for a couple years. I met some great people but wouldn't consider living there for a few major reasons.

 

[theFixer]

I think I speak for most of the Northern Breathren when I say:

I am so G.D. Sick of winter!!! It's cold, lifeless breath has sucked what little remains of my soul and has hidden it in a vast, lifeless,
desolate stink hole. Devoid of all color and emotion, I can only peer helplessly across an unending abyss of snow and ice. A slow painful descent into madness is my only hope of salvation. If I have to shovel one more time, I'm going to embark on a multi-state crime spree,
my apprehension occurring on a tropical beach where law enforcement will have to pry my cold beer from my cold dead hands.
Just saying.

I like winter

 

[Dr_Feelgoood212]

The goofy thing is that there's no way to tell whether you are looking at an Epi or Gibson Thunderbird until you look at the truss rod cover. Unless you are inspecting for minor details and check to see what the finish is. A VP would badly fool a whole lot of people who don't know what they are looking at, for example. And, most people who aren't paying attention all the time would easily mistake a CP for a modern Gibson. Maybe Henry J. is trying to kill off Gibson, or maybe pump up Epiphone and then sell it.

I have to disagree. The edges around the body of Epi's, are a lot more rounded than Gibson's. The cutout is deeper on the Epi's. Also the heel contour is different IIRC. Some people may not notice these details, but they are there.

 

[Inky13]

I like winter

Not helping!

 

[theFixer]

I have to disagree. The edges around the body of Epi's, are a lot more rounded than Gibson's. The cutout is deeper on the Epi's. Also the heel contour is different IIRC. Some people may not notice these details, but they are there.

 

[JIO]

I have to disagree. The edges around the body of Epi's, are a lot more rounded than Gibson's. The cutout is deeper on the Epi's. Also the heel contour is different IIRC. Some people may not notice these details, but they are there.

The devil is in the details.