Thunderbird Club

[Engle]

YYYESSSSSSSS!!!

Ya just gotta love a simple solution!

@Mantis Tobaggan Thats great!

 

[JIO]

Yeah, I knew there was no offense.

I think the technique is interesting. I wonder why so few use it. Because it is difficult to master? Because there is no demand for it? Because no one bothers with anything that isn't slappity poppity anymore? I don't expect that I will learn it; but I can't be bothered learning to play with a pick either. If Jeff Beck doens't need a pick, I don't either...

I noticed his non-pick picking style and thought about Jeff Beck. I love plying with a pic as well as finger-style (I choose not to slap) but will have to try the middle-ground of picking with fingers... the more one learns the more versatile one becomes.

 

[D.M.N.]

Yeah, I knew there was no offense.

I think the technique is interesting. I wonder why so few use it. Because it is difficult to master? Because there is no demand for it? Because no one bothers with anything that isn't slappity poppity anymore? I don't expect that I will learn it; but I can't be bothered learning to play with a pick either. If Jeff Beck doens't need a pick, I don't either...

I have tried to master it for years and it sounds good on lightning fast runs. To actually play in time that way seems more challenging (to me anyways) but Geddy seems to do just fine..

If I'm playing fingers instead of pick, I will play "flamenco" for chords, hitting with the finger nails gives a tone closer to a pick and adds some definition when chording. I did pick it up from watching Geddy. It also allows you to play really quick, as you can stroke down with the outside of the fingers and sweep back up with the inside. You can also get a semi-wave motion going where you stroke out and back in for a rapid gallop across all four fingers.

 

[JIO]

If I'm playing fingers instead of pick, I will play "flamenco" for chords, hitting with the finger nails gives a tone closer to a pick and adds some definition when chording. I did pick it up from watching Geddy. It also allows you to play really quick, as you can stroke down with the outside of the fingers and sweep back up with the inside. You can also get a semi-wave motion going where you stroke out and back in for a rapid gallop across all four fingers.

Yes, and I noticed GL fingernail picked a lot of upstrokes - more than downstrokes it appears.

 

[Christine]

Completely agree.

I've built a few basses and on one of them I swapped necks out to see which one I liked best. Both necks built by Warmoth to the exact same specs except for the wood, one was maple/maple and the other was rosewood/rosewood. Both weighed within an ounce of each other. The strings and hardware were removed from the uninstalled neck and installed on the installed neck. The neck screws were even torqued to the exact same settings. In short, the bass was as identical except for the neck wood as it could possibly be.

I recorded each setup in open strings, all first position frets and tuning harmonics. The difference was night and day to my ears. But there's always bias on the part of the player/builder so I played the tape for my wife (who can't tell a bass guitar from a bass drum beat) and she noticed the difference right away. Played the tape for my band mates and every one of them spotted the difference as well.

Some liked the punch and attack on the maple neck, some liked the smooth tone and more gradual decay on the rosewood neck. I liked both but went with the rosewood neck on the final build because I thought it looked better with the antique white body.

So I know for a fact neck wood can make a difference. I would logically assume body wood can also make a difference, how much, I don't know but I bet it's there however subtle it might be.

Unsurprising, when you pluck a string it vibrates and sends vibrations into the body/neck via the bridge and headstock. The body/neck in turn vibrate and feedback into the strings which in turn change their vibration pattern in sympathy (the principal of superposition). So the less feedback into the string the longer it can ring unless the feedback is identical and in phase. Anything with a lamination in is very good as absorbing vibrations as the two or more part behave as if they are joined with a fluid and vibrate differently so the energy is converted very quickly

 

[Christine]

I had a response worked out that involved playing with yourself, other people's junk, and trying to finish together, but it was just working to hard for a series of ahems.

Don't let that stop you, I never do (apparently!)

 

[Christine]

Why don't people who are lip synching just sing rather than make exaggerated mouth movements? The mic's off so what the hey!

It's a shame TOTP make them do that, they are/were such a great live band and Dave had a great voice too when he wanted to show it off. It's a shame they don't get more recognition than they do, they deserve it

 

[Dr_Feelgoood212]

I think that the take home from that video is that the bass player is a more skilled guitar player than the rhythm guitar player in Metallica...

… and lead… considering Kirk couldn’t even attempt it.

 

[Christine]

Ask Chucky. He has compared the sound of his 68(Honduran)to his newer TBird(African). That's why I spec'ed Honduran in my "dream" bass. Didn't know you can't get it over there.

There are probably a few boards lying around in some shed somewhere, I'm not sure what the CITES situation is with it either but to all intents and purposes the stuff has gone in the UK. I think anything that we can buy these days is plantation grown only or from the States, Maple, Walnut or white/red Oak, are those plantation grown now?

I've been keen on buying sustainable timber for years, I try my best to get FSC timber now even though I'm not registered as an FSC manufacturer. I'm not a tree hugger by any stretch of the imagination but I do think it's time we looked to the future of the planet rather than try to make a fast buck at it's expense. I'm sure there are other woods out there with tonal similarities to Honduran Mahogany that can be grown faster and sustainably, I used to use Bolivian Mahogany when I was making furniture, that was the same species as Brazilian/Honduran (Swietenia macrophylla) but plantation grown but either I can't find it or it has become unavailable now. Shame it was a hell of a lot easier to work with that African Mahogany which isn't actually a true Mahogany just similar in colour. It is harder, heavier and has a very interlocked grain so obviously it will have a different sound to Honduran, it will probably sustain slightly longer and be brighter sounding (a guess).

In the UK we have a tree called the Sycamore which is similar to your Maple, less dense and lighter it has high strength too, I'm thinking of having a go with some of that, I don't know of any other guitars made from it, maybe that's a sign of something ominous but it seems outwardly to be a very sensible choice if you want a white or painted guitar.

 

[Dr_Feelgoood212]

View attachment 3102585
OK crappy pic. This is a continuation of my vintage audio fever dream series. The bottom unit is a 1981 Technics pre/power amp deal. No tuner. At 120 watts per side, it can power pretty much any speaker set. Probably the apex of consumer audio at that time. Not to be confused with audiophile level. Push a button and a glass door opens to access the lower controls. Notice the radical change between this and my 1976 Pioneer in five years.
The 19” width was industry standard. This thing is a beast and powered my home studio for several years. Above, a 1990 Pioneer cassette deck featuring six tapes at once. Shuffle too.
It was cassette’s last gasp at competing with compact disk.
Retailing at $600, it’s packed with features, but totally useless today. Just another reminder of the speed of consumer electronics. What’s the next big thing? Thanks for letting me drone on about off topic useless crap. Don’t know if I could do so elsewhere.

I might be able to get my hands on an 80’s technics 1200 mk2 if you’re interested

 

[GonePlaid]

I noticed his non-pick picking style and thought about Jeff Beck. I love plying with a pic as well as finger-style (I choose not to slap) but will have to try the middle-ground of picking with fingers... the more one learns the more versatile one becomes.

I, too, choose not to slap. My basses have never done anything bad enough to make me want to slap them. That, and the fact I have a little bone spur right where it hurts to try it.

 

[RedVee]

There are probably a few boards lying around in some shed somewhere, I'm not sure what the CITES situation is with it either but to all intents and purposes the stuff has gone in the UK. I think anything that we can buy these days is plantation grown only or from the States, Maple, Walnut or white/red Oak, are those plantation grown now?

I've been keen on buying sustainable timber for years, I try my best to get FSC timber now even though I'm not registered as an FSC manufacturer. I'm not a tree hugger by any stretch of the imagination but I do think it's time we looked to the future of the planet rather than try to make a fast buck at it's expense. I'm sure there are other woods out there with tonal similarities to Honduran Mahogany that can be grown faster and sustainably, I used to use Bolivian Mahogany when I was making furniture, that was the same species as Brazilian/Honduran (Swietenia macrophylla) but plantation grown but either I can't find it or it has become unavailable now. Shame it was a hell of a lot easier to work with that African Mahogany which isn't actually a true Mahogany just similar in colour. It is harder, heavier and has a very interlocked grain so obviously it will have a different sound to Honduran, it will probably sustain slightly longer and be brighter sounding (a guess).

In the UK we have a tree called the Sycamore which is similar to your Maple, less dense and lighter it has high strength too, I'm thinking of having a go with some of that, I don't know of any other guitars made from it, maybe that's a sign of something ominous but it seems outwardly to be a very sensible choice if you want a white or painted guitar.

It’s interesting the whole which wood question. I suggest you are on the right track in looking for a local, sustainable wood of ‘the right type’. If the wood is suitable at the least it adds to your story, does something good and being local may have lower cost in transportation and the like.

From Maton, not a million miles away from your concept (if a little flowery ) Invalid Link Removed

Meanwhile, the search was on for a supply of Sassafras, the tonewood identified by Bill May as the very best wood for electric basses all those years ago. This is not the striped, heavy Sassafras from Tasmania but a much lighter, plain looking timber that grows in the subtropical regions of Queensland. It is hard to find and even harder to manage (it tends to misbehave during drying) but once tamed is a beautifully stable, great sounding tonewood, rich in harmonic overtones with a very strong lower midrange response.

 

[Count Bassie]

I noticed his non-pick picking style and thought about Jeff Beck. I love plying with a pic as well as finger-style (I choose not to slap) but will have to try the middle-ground of picking with fingers... the more one learns the more versatile one becomes.

I like a slap-like approach to some things. I don't like the term "slap", don't think it's a very apt way to describe the approach, but for some tunes I do like the authorative tone you can get- when you nail it there's a deep harmonic undertone and a toothy, grindy top to the note that surfaces in an unexpected way. Like being in a pond and a fin appearing nearby...

For "Red Skies at Night" I've been bringing the first joint of my thumb down on the note, rather than hitting it with a pick (like their original bass player used). It's not as raspy, but is solid and unmoving, like a pillar stuck 8ft down into the earth. It's real affective and assertive for such a tune.

I don't command the complete technique, but it's an effective item in the toolbox.

 

[TBird1958]

We used to play "Red Skies at Night" long ago, it was all pick and a lot of clank for me, sounded really good when I would use a '76.

 

[Christine]

it was all pick and a lot of clank for me

Am I allowed to ahem the Queen? Is it worth it I ask, it's common knowledge

Seriously, I've never head of that song before, one that completely escaped me

 

[TBird1958]

Am I allowed to ahem the Queen? Is it worth it I ask, it's common knowledge

Seriously, I've never head of that song before, one that completely escaped me

I'm pretty sure you have heard it....

Here's the original version from 1982, The Fixx are one the coolest '80s bands.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

If I'm playing fingers instead of pick, I will play "flamenco" for chords, hitting with the finger nails gives a tone closer to a pick and adds some definition when chording. I did pick it up from watching Geddy. It also allows you to play really quick, as you can stroke down with the outside of the fingers and sweep back up with the inside. You can also get a semi-wave motion going where you stroke out and back in for a rapid gallop across all four fingers.

Exactly what I meant. Great for flashy great sounding passages. To evenly play single finger up and down 8th note strokes at say, 96BPM it becomes more challenging. Since I'm fairly adept with a pick I'll default to that, which begs the question; is it hard to master because there's a "pick" workaround? For me, yes..

 

[JIO]

I, too, choose not to slap. My basses have never done anything bad enough to make me want to slap them. That, and the fact I have a little bone spur right where it hurts to try it.

Yes, best not to provoke pain due to slapping/popping. I used the word 'choose' (not to) because the music I play doesn't incorporate that technique. I have respect and awe of the fluid technique of some slappers and in the right context it sounds exactly the correct sound for that specific application. I'm good with my right hand and probably could learn to slap decently. As it is, I can convincingly fake a brief slap/pop if needed - it's just that it's never needed. It's somewhat the same for primarily playing 4 string basses - the B string (for the music I play) is just not going to make the song any better. I've built a few 5's and enjoy playing them and like that big fat low string - but I'm most comfortable navigating 4. yomv

 

[JIO]

I'm pretty sure you have heard it....

Here's the original version from 1982, The Fixx are one the coolest '80s bands.

I've always considered the 80's as the decade of "bass-out-front", as illustrated by this song. The bass-break at 2:30 exemplifies basses new role/prominence in the mix then.

 

[JJR58]

I've always considered the 80's as the decade of "bass-out-front", as illustrated by this song. The bass-break at 2:30 exemplifies basses new role/prominence in the mix then.

Couldn’t agree more. Not sure if this song qualifies. But it comes to mind in regards to your post JIO.