Thunderbird Club

[JIO]

Oh, I'm not disparaging Cream, they're one of my favorite groups, but live they would go in all sorts of directions, each soloing, and while I love Bruce's playing, idk if a solid foundation is what he did. His playing was very angular and he was frequently doing runs all over the board, with off-kilter fills and odd note choices, though on their studio output he certainly played it a lot ore straight. I mean it worked, and he was always "on-time" (though playing around the beat), but when I think solid bass foundation, I think JPJ. I think to understand Bruce's playing you really have to view it from a jazz perspective, especially when it comes to note choice and placement, as well as how Cream played off each other in their extended improvisational pieces (Spoonful, I'm So Glad, Sweet Wine). As bluesy as his playing was, live I think you can really hear the influence of Bebop, where he's playing something completely against the beat and melody and venturing into atonality.

You can hear some good examples on Wheels of Fire and here:

I agree - JB and the way the trio extrapolated was closer to jazz than rock in it's form. Volume made it rock. Can't really compare them to other rock groups of that time that 'jammed' rock - jamming in jazz is part of what jazz is supposed to be.

 

[Count Bassie]

dig his tone on this..

dig his tone on this..

Saw them do this on SNL when it was current. Was cool to see the Bruce... he played a Spector as I recall.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Saw them do this on SNL when it was current. Was cool to see the Bruce... he played a Spector as I recall.

I saw them at the Candy Store in Ft Lauderdale and he was playing an Aria Pro II..

 

[Count Bassie]

I saw them at the Candy Store in Ft Lauderdale and he was playing an Aria Pro II..

Cool!

 

[GBassNorth]

Interesting discussions about Cream. Love Jacks stuff and style.
So here's a question for all to ponder..
IYHO - name a rock band that you think was well ahead of its time and point to a specific song or album. It could apply to any type of rock (including pop, acid, metal, prog, rap, grunge...). Basically who do you feel was the first to blaze a trail. And don't cop out with root type stuff that led to modern rock (it all goes back to blues eventually). Instead, just name a song that everyone would agree is about the first example of that genre of rock. Bonus points in someone in the band played a Thunderbird type bass.

For instance the first Rap type song I think I ever heard was Blondie's "Rapture" in 1980. Unfortunately I think Nigel Harrison was a Fender guy.

 

[Gaolee]

I'll play - probably not what you are expecting though.


At the time, hip-hop was frenetic, and none of us could imagine a rap ballad. My wife and I were floored when we first heard this. I think we still have the vinyl single somewhere.

 

[Dr_Feelgoood212]

Interesting discussions about Cream. Love Jacks stuff and style.
So here's a question for all to ponder..
IYHO - name a rock band that you think was well ahead of its time and point to a specific song or album. It could apply to any type of rock (including pop, acid, metal, prog, rap, grunge...). Basically who do you feel was the first to blaze a trail. And don't cop out with root type stuff that led to modern rock (it all goes back to blues eventually). Instead, just name a song that everyone would agree is about the first example of that genre of rock. Bonus points in someone in the band played a Thunderbird type bass.

For instance the first Rap type song I think I ever heard was Blondie's "Rapture" in 1980. Unfortunately I think Nigel Harrison was a Fender guy.

Black Sabbath, yes heavily blues based but are truly the God Fathers of metal.
Albums?
Black Sabbath
Paranoid
Master of Reality

 

[Dr_Feelgoood212]

I'll play - probably not what you are expecting though.


At the time, hip-hop was frenetic, and none of us could imagine a rap ballad. My wife and I were floored when we first heard this. I think we still have the vinyl single somewhere.

Another rap trailblazer:
Eminem.... need I say more?

 

[D.M.N.]

Interesting discussions about Cream. Love Jacks stuff and style.
So here's a question for all to ponder..
IYHO - name a rock band that you think was well ahead of its time and point to a specific song or album. It could apply to any type of rock (including pop, acid, metal, prog, rap, grunge...). Basically who do you feel was the first to blaze a trail. And don't cop out with root type stuff that led to modern rock (it all goes back to blues eventually). Instead, just name a song that everyone would agree is about the first example of that genre of rock. Bonus points in someone in the band played a Thunderbird type bass.

For instance the first Rap type song I think I ever heard was Blondie's "Rapture" in 1980. Unfortunately I think Nigel Harrison was a Fender guy.

Well the entirety of Are You Experienced I think can be seen as a watershed moment.
Blue Cheer's Summer Time Blues, and the album Vincebus Eruptum.
The Stooges' I Wanna Be Your Dog
Van Halen I, another watershed moment for guitar playing
The Who's A Quick One While He's Away which I think is really pointing ahead to the fully fleshed idea of concept albums and rock operas. While Pet Sounds came out earlier and Sgt Pepper was concurrent and are both named as early concept albums, the song A Quick One really gets to the ideas of the concept album in a more condensed form, such as a complete story and revisiting themes to connect the story. While other early examples have themes, I think A Quick One is where the story-telling aspect becomes clear.

 

[JJR58]

Another rap trailblazer:
Eminem.... need I say more?

The Beastie Boys.

 

[Engle]

The reference was to the 'jazz' discussion that was going on a few posts back. Baker's accents made sense (usually) and the solos were what fit the songs. Bruce kept a solid bass foundation throughout.

Even when he was soloing off into the stratosphere, his bass sounded like a bass!

 

[GBassNorth]

I'll play - probably not what you are expecting though.


At the time, hip-hop was frenetic, and none of us could imagine a rap ballad. My wife and I were floored when we first heard this. I think we still have the vinyl single somewhere.

Nice song, but I thought that came out in the late 1980's. Wasn't hip hop around before then?

 

[GBassNorth]

Black Sabbath, yes heavily blues based but are truly the God Fathers of metal.
Albums?
Black Sabbath
Paranoid
Master of Reality

Without really digging around, I'd have to agree with you on Sabbath being recognized as the first Metal band out there.

Then I dug around a little bit and found their very first song release in 1970...


Sounds strangely kinda like this song, released in 1964...


That's not to say I think the Kinks were heavy metal, but they were probably on the more edgy side of British rock before the Beatles were.

Digging into the evolution of rock always uncovers something new to me.

 

[GonePlaid]

Interesting discussions about Cream. Love Jacks stuff and style.
So here's a question for all to ponder..
IYHO - name a rock band that you think was well ahead of its time and point to a specific song or album. It could apply to any type of rock (including pop, acid, metal, prog, rap, grunge...). Basically who do you feel was the first to blaze a trail. And don't cop out with root type stuff that led to modern rock (it all goes back to blues eventually). Instead, just name a song that everyone would agree is about the first example of that genre of rock. Bonus points in someone in the band played a Thunderbird type bass.

For instance the first Rap type song I think I ever heard was Blondie's "Rapture" in 1980. Unfortunately I think Nigel Harrison was a Fender guy.

As an ex-saxophonist turned bassist(I wasn't that good on sax), Electric Flag-Groovin' is Easy>Blood, Sweat and Tears>Chicago. The whole 'horn-rock' genre. My daughter and I still go to every Chicago concert in the area that we can get to including 4 on a double bill with Earth, Wind and Fire. And they always do some songs with massed bands, finishing with 25 or 6 to 4. No one in the audience is sitting.(Addendum)I was in a 7 piece horn-rock band in 1970. We auditioned at a place on Miami Beach. The guy loved us-then asked"can you cut it down to 5?"

 

[Dr_Feelgoood212]

Without really digging around, I'd have to agree with you on Sabbath being recognized as the first Metal band out there.

Then I dug around a little bit and found their very first song release in 1970...


Sounds strangely kinda like this song, released in 1964...


That's not to say I think the Kinks were heavy metal, but they were probably on the more edgy side of British rock before the Beatles were.

Digging into the evolution of rock always uncovers something new to me.

Listen to Black Sabbath ~ Black Sabbath on the Black Sabbath album... very heavy.
By Master of Reality (their third album) they tuned to C# almost exclusively, primarily because of Tony Iommi’s fingers being tipless. So that album has some pretty heavy tunes.

Look into a ‘docu series’ called Metal Evolution or something along those lines. It’s a pretty good show.

 

[MCF]

Interesting discussions about Cream. Love Jacks stuff and style.
So here's a question for all to ponder..
IYHO - name a rock band that you think was well ahead of its time and point to a specific song or album. It could apply to any type of rock (including pop, acid, metal, prog, rap, grunge...). Basically who do you feel was the first to blaze a trail. And don't cop out with root type stuff that led to modern rock (it all goes back to blues eventually). Instead, just name a song that everyone would agree is about the first example of that genre of rock. Bonus points in someone in the band played a Thunderbird type bass.

For instance the first Rap type song I think I ever heard was Blondie's "Rapture" in 1980. Unfortunately I think Nigel Harrison was a Fender guy.

Traffic. Glad on John Barelycorn was kinda unique for its time.

 

[Engle]

Listen to Black Sabbath ~ Black Sabbath on the Black Sabbath album... very heavy.
By Master of Reality (their third album) they tuned to C# almost exclusively, primarily because of Tony Iommi’s fingers being tipless. So that album has some pretty heavy tunes.

Look into a ‘docu series’ called Metal Evolution or something along those lines. It’s a pretty good show.

Tony Iommi was one of the first guitarists to use very light strings and a lot of gain - to cope with his tipless fingers. One could say an industrial accident led to the creation of heavy metal.

The other thing I find interesting is the contrast in the amount of time/money spent to record Black Sabbath versus Vol 4. IIRC Black Sabbath was recorded in a few days. The amount spent on cocaine alone for Vol4 was something like $72K. No wonder there's a song called Snowblind...

 

[GBassNorth]

Good grief, the GenPop is at it again.

There apparently is no end to the "let's bash Gibson" train.
Henry is booted out and a guitar rocker takes takes the helm with intent to replace the entire board of directors with guitar (and hopefully bass) players, improve quality and offerings and completely turn the company around - and the GenPop here at TB has virtually nothing positive to say.

Forgive me, my Queen, for I mindlessly wandered outside this club of enlightenment and open mindedness, this garden of Eden surrounded by Thunderbirds of every make, age and color. Of course while I was out there I left a slight mess in isle three.

 

[Dr_Feelgoood212]

Good grief, the GenPop is at it again.

There apparently is no end to the "let's bash Gibson" train.
Henry is booted out and a guitar rocker takes takes the helm with intent to replace the entire board of directors with guitar (and hopefully bass) players, improve quality and offerings and completely turn the company around - and the GenPop here at TB has virtually nothing positive to say.

Forgive me, my Queen, for I mindlessly wandered outside this club of enlightenment and open mindedness, this garden of Eden surrounded by Thunderbirds of every make, age and color. Of course while I was out there I left a slight mess in isle three.

How about that thread about a 3D printed Ric?! I know it’s not gonna work (I focused quite a bit of my time in my last semester on 3D printing), but it’ll still be a cool project. Them people are savages!

 

[JJR58]

Good grief, the GenPop is at it again.

There apparently is no end to the "let's bash Gibson" train.
Henry is booted out and a guitar rocker takes takes the helm with intent to replace the entire board of directors with guitar (and hopefully bass) players, improve quality and offerings and completely turn the company around - and the GenPop here at TB has virtually nothing positive to say.

Forgive me, my Queen, for I mindlessly wandered outside this club of enlightenment and open mindedness, this garden of Eden surrounded by Thunderbirds of every make, age and color. Of course while I was out there I left a slight mess in isle three.

I saw that earlier. And now I can’t unsee it.