Thunderbird Club

[GBassNorth]

the lower you go in freq, the harder the amp works. in this case the comparison is between a Class D amp vs a more traditional tube Class AB design. the reason an SVT head weighs almost 100 pounds is the iron in the transformers which with the filters deliver instant energy ‘on tap’ when needed. because of this the SVT can do this all day long (at the expense of weight) where Class D can only do this for a finite amount of time relying on the assumption that these power levels are only necessary in short transients...make sense? the upside on the Class D operation is a much smaller lighter FF, which is very appealing to the gigging bassist. sonically there really is no comparison. these are very involved questions since there are so many variables that differently vary in importance to different users hence there really isn’t a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer..

So if Tube amps are traditionally class AB and able to drive low frequencies all day long and SS amps are typically class D amps which cannot take that low frequency punishment without eventually going into protection mode does it stand to reason that Tube amps with a given watt rating will remain louder longer than a SS amp at the same watt rating when driving the low frequencies typically associated with bass guitars, assuming all else is equal?

Note - I'm not trying to put you on the spot, I'm just wondering out loud if the reason there's such a vocal Tube watts are louder camp out there is because the equipment that frequently utilizes Tube watts (class AB) is specifically engineered to handle higher levels of low frequency output without resorting to typical class D circuit protection procedures which may impact the class D output level or quality.

If that's true it would explain a lot. It would mean - watts ARE created equal but amps AREN'T, especially when it comes to bass frequencies. Wattage levels listed for SS amps may in fact not go as far as the same wattage in a Tube amp, hence the perception of Tube watts being louder. Does that make sense?

 

[PillO]

So if Tube amps are traditionally class AB and able to drive low frequencies all day long and SS amps are typically class D amps

I think that it would be better to have three chunks in mind - tube AB, SS AB, and class D.

It would mean - watts ARE created equal but amps AREN'T

That is all that really need be said.

 

[netohugo]

The RS66s were great, and I love Cobalt flats on my VP and basic IV.
Great job here! What software are y'all using?

Thanx for the comments.

i’m recording on Logic Pro (from the hughes & kettner tube meister DI) and sending to the Singer to do the mix and vídeo edit.
but I Don’t really Know What he and the others are using.
Strange days ....

 

[MCF]

So the poly finish on the VP is REALLY TOUGH.
How do I know?
Practicing some jazz last night sitting on a stool, I got up to futz with a chart and the strap at the heel came off. (I know -straplocks! I had a rubber washer on there, but it’s an old leather strap with a worn hole)
My left arm was above the neck, so I had no chance to catch it. The headstock hit the maple floor hard with its lower edge. The bass was plugged into an amp. It made a very loud, deep bang!

My wife calls up “you ok?” I reply with “I’m fine, but the Thunderbird hit the floor”
My daughter, bless her heart, came running up “ I heard a Big Bang and then you said Thunderbird...”

No cracks, not a scratch on the poly. I saw it hit, but can’t find any evidence. Nitro would have had a scar for sure.

So was your daughter worried about you or the Tbird?

 

[MCF]

How do you think this neck would look with a NR body?
View attachment 3817531

It would look ok. Looks like a US neck? Is it on the original body? I like Peavys....

 

[Engle]

So was your daughter worried about you or the Tbird?

My daughter was worried about the Tbird

 

[dagrev]

the lower you go in freq, the harder the amp works. in this case the comparison is between a Class D amp vs a more traditional tube Class AB design. the reason an SVT head weighs almost 100 pounds is the iron in the transformers which with the filters deliver instant energy ‘on tap’ when needed. because of this the SVT can do this all day long (at the expense of weight) where Class D can only do this for a finite amount of time relying on the assumption that these power levels are only necessary in short transients...make sense? the upside on the Class D operation is a much smaller lighter FF, which is very appealing to the gigging bassist. sonically there really is no comparison. these are very involved questions since there are so many variables that differently vary in importance to different users hence there really isn’t a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer..

I've got nothing to contribute, but am enjoying this topic! The SVT and the PF350 comparison and why there are other factors is interesting.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

So if Tube amps are traditionally class AB and able to drive low frequencies all day long and SS amps are typically class D amps which cannot take that low frequency punishment without eventually going into protection mode does it stand to reason that Tube amps with a given watt rating will remain louder longer than a SS amp at the same watt rating when driving the low frequencies typically associated with bass guitars, assuming all else is equal?

Note - I'm not trying to put you on the spot, I'm just wondering out loud if the reason there's such a vocal Tube watts are louder camp out there is because the equipment that frequently utilizes Tube watts (class AB) is specifically engineered to handle higher levels of low frequency output without resorting to typical class D circuit protection procedures which may impact the class D output level or quality.

If that's true it would explain a lot. It would mean - watts ARE created equal but amps AREN'T, especially when it comes to bass frequencies. Wattage levels listed for SS amps may in fact not go as far as the same wattage in a Tube amp, hence the perception of Tube watts being louder. Does that make sense?

PillO pretty much answered your question. SS doesn’t necessarily have to be Class D. We were talking about a specific comparison. Yes, Watts are created equal, Amps are not.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

I've got nothing to contribute, but am enjoying this topic! The SVT and the PF350 comparison and why there are other factors is interesting.

glad to hear but don’t really want to derail...be interesting to hear Engle’s thoughts if he does a comparison

 

[Engle]

It would look ok. Looks like a US neck? Is it on the original body? I like Peavys....

Yes that's the Axcelerator - crafted in the USA. 35" scale with Peavey active electronics. Only weighs 8lbs 3oz.
I think I only paid about $200 for it a few years ago.
I've never gotten used to 5 string, but the singer in my reggae band thinks it would be cool.
Hmmm now that I think about it I could just go BEAD on another bass - it's not like I use the G string much in that band.

 

[dagrev]

glad to hear but don’t really want to derail...be interesting to hear Engle’s thoughts if he does a comparison

That would be very interesting. But for the purposes of this thread he has to do that test with a Thunderbird.

 

[Engle]

glad to hear but don’t really want to derail...be interesting to hear Engle’s thoughts if he does a comparison

Oh, I don't have an SVT CL and my PF350 can't get loud without shutting down. But yes it would be a good experiment. Let's ask @JimmyM

Hey Jimmy, how would an SVTCL and a PF350 compare into identical 810 cabinets? Have you ever run them side by side?

 

[MCF]

Yes that's the Axcelerator - crafted in the USA. 35" scale with Peavey active electronics. Only weighs 8lbs 3oz.
I think I only paid about $200 for it a few years ago.
I've never gotten used to 5 string, but the singer in my reggae band thinks it would be cool.
Hmmm now that I think about it I could just go BEAD on another bass - it's not like I use the G string much in that band.

JMO, but I’d keep a US Peavy as is if there’s nothing wrong with it. You’ve probably already doubled your money in it. The prices on them have gone up in the last year or so, primarily because of this forum.

My Foundation is lovely with a superb neck. It’s essentially a workingman’s Jazz Bass with better sounding pickups.

 

[Engle]

JMO, but I’d keep a US Peavy as is if there’s nothing wrong with it. You’ve probably already doubled your money in it. The prices on them have gone up in the last year or so, primarily because of this forum.

My Foundation is lovely with a superb neck. It’s essentially a workingman’s Jazz Bass with better sounding pickups.

Yeah the only thing wrong with my Axcelerator is a few rusty screws and the pickguard is warped. I might just make a new guard with some purple pearloid stock I have.
The neck is pretty nice!

 

[fasterpussycat]

I think that it would be better to have three chunks in mind - tube AB, SS AB, and class D.


That is all that really need be said.

Agreed. My 2 x 250W AB mosfet amp was stuffed full of 20,000 μF capacitors. Opened the PF500 and 'where are the bloody caps?'

 

[Toptube]

maybe i missed the reply when I posted this before but:

Are there lightweight tuners which drop right in for a Vintage Pro? (hipshot?)

and I assume the hipshots with the small machines + large vintage size clovers need some drilling?

 

[JimmyM]

Oh, I don't have an SVT CL and my PF350 can't get loud without shutting down. But yes it would be a good experiment. Let's ask @JimmyM

Hey Jimmy, how would an SVTCL and a PF350 compare into identical 810 cabinets? Have you ever run them side by side?

I have indeed. Eerily similar, yet you can tell. I once did an AB on a gig, and the backline guy supplying some keyboards came over and said, "What happened to your bass?" The characteristics of Ampeg are there, but not the awesome tubey goodness. But it's way better than you'd expect for 3 bills, your shutdown problem notwithstanding.

 

[MCF]

I have indeed. Eerily similar, yet you can tell. I once did an AB on a gig, and the backline guy supplying some keyboards came over and said, "What happened to your bass?" The characteristics of Ampeg are there, but not the awesome tubey goodness. But it's way better than you'd expect for 3 bills, your shutdown problem notwithstanding.

I think @PillO oughta buy your SVT and fridge and commission @GonePlaid to pick it up and drive it up to Canada in the new van.

 

[PillO]

That would be very interesting. But for the purposes of this thread he has to do that test with a Thunderbird.

Should do it with a Thunderbird and a P bass then declare that both sound better with the Thunderbird. Not that we are putting the conclusion ahead of the test...

 

[PillO]

I think @PillO oughta buy your SVT and fridge and commission @GonePlaid to pick it up and drive it up to Canada in the new van.

I think we can come up with something far more Rube Goldberg to accomplish this...