Thunderfunk TF420 vs. Aguilar AG500

[rayzak]

Hey Smash, keep updating this as you use it in a live situation and your thoughts while you get more accustomed to it.
You said it's not the sound you were expecting. What does that mean? Better, worse... what were you expecting.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
I, personally love it.

P.S.- I don't mind the blue lights, but they are really, really bright.

 

[kringle77]

Yeah, this amp has a strong tonal character to it. Thats why I love it. Live, I play it though a pair of avatar b210's with the tweeters just barely on. I boost the high and high mid up to about 2 o'clock and adjust the low end to the room. The deep switch is always in and the bright is dependent on the room as well. This amp always cuts through live, even in the worst rooms. This amp with a boss compressor and sparkle overdrive can get any sound and has cured most of my gas. It is "the" gigging amp. The only amp that has stayed in my rack longer than a year.

 

[strummer]

I have been playing my Aggie AG500 with two GS112's for a while now, and I am extremely satisfied.

The AG500 has a really good sound to start with, and as others have mentioned before, even the extreme eq settings are useful. It's just "more of this, less of that" instead of getting nasty.
The distortion channel is a lot of fun; I use it for a raw slap tone.
It's also surprisingly loud for a 500 W solid state amp.
I have recorded with the amp, and both pre eq and post eq DI was deemed worthy by the engineer.
One thing that kind of scares me is that the manual mentions the DI not capable of handling phantom power. I just found out that you can get it fitted with a jensen DI for an additional $150. On the other hand, DB himself told my rep that the only way the DI could get hurt was if it saw a 0 ohm load? I'm having it upgraded just in case...
Best amp I have owned, and easy to carry too

 

[Pickebass]

I purchased a AG500SC about a week ago and used it for 3 gigs so far. I've used it with a berg 310 and tw gs112s. I was more impressed on the gig than I was at home practicing with it. With the 310 the sound is awesome. I have used my other aguilar amps and none have worked at well. This is due to the quick response (tube vs. solid state) of the amp that makes it really stand out. It's not as agressive as a tube amp and it is definitely has an "aguilar sound". Not quick as "round" as the tube amps, but has may useful sounds. I could not get a bad sound out of it!

I like the voicing of the eq. Works great for me. Especially works well on my Ken Smith. It may not have the controls of a Thunderfunk, but it definitely has great tone.

One drawback, that has left me dissapointed is the build quality. The feel of the knobs and other parts is kinda cheesy. Especially when you compare it with anything in the DB series....On the other hand, the DB series amps costs twice as much.... go figure

 

[cptnhook]

Smash,

Thanks for the in-depth review. I'm also curious to see how your real world experiences go with the aggie, so please keep us posted!

Perhaps BP didn't prefer the Q of the mid EQs - possibly too narrow/broad for their liking. But I'm glad to hear it's working out for a lot of people.

 

[DAcat]

Got the ag500sc today.

If anyone wants any specific comparisons I have a Thunderfunk (and Gibson GB440).

Hey Smash-you've got quite a rack of amps there-I'm really following this TF and Aggi shootout,and leaning toward the TF(I'm hoping to try a TF550 in the next couple of weeks)...how about comparing and contrasting how the 3 of them(TF,Aggi,and GB440) sound with your Schroeder cabinet(which I'm also seriously considering a 1210 or 1212 or both)...what do they reallly sound like? Thanks and ....Peace...DAcat

 

[jerry]

Hey Smash-you've got quite a rack of amps there-I'm really following this TF and Aggi shootout,and leaning toward the TF(I'm hoping to try a TF550 in the next couple of weeks)...how about comparing and contrasting how the 3 of them(TF,Aggi,and GB440) sound with your Schroeder cabinet(which I'm also seriously considering a 1210 or 1212 or both)...what do they reallly sound like? Thanks and ....Peace...DAcat

I have a older Thunderfunk that I either pair up with my 1212 or 1210, they make a awesome couple!!

 

[John D Harris]

I have a older Thunderfunk that I either pair up with my 1212 or 1210, they make a awesome couple!!

Jerry, how does the TF compare to the Dem/PLX with the 1210 for gigging -- just talking tone-wise?

[I forget if you have the VTBP or HBP.]

 

[jerry]

I use the Thunderfunk for smaller gigs with just one of my Schroeders, and the DemeterVTP/ PLX3002 for the rest. I seem to get almost the same tonality out of all my amps, but the Demeter is just a little cleaner/pure than the Thunderfunk.
The headroom for transients is one of the main reasons I still use a pre/poweramp combo alot, and the Schroeders, like Bergies really come alive when they are spanked I just got a pair of Mini 12's from Jorg, and I'm looking foward to using one of those with the Thunderfunk for my new "small" rig.

 

[Thunderfunk]

I use the Thunderfunk for smaller gigs with just one of my Schroeders, and the DemeterVTP/ PLX3002 for the rest. I seem to get almost the same tonality out of all my amps, but the Demeter is just a little cleaner/pure than the Thunderfunk.
The headroom for transients is one of the main reasons I still use a pre/poweramp combo alot, and the Schroeders, like Bergies really come alive when they are spanked I just got a pair of Mini 12's from Jorg, and I'm looking foward to using one of those with the Thunderfunk for my new "small" rig.

Jerry, Sounds like you have sensitive ears. I think that purity you talk about is what "The Switch" addresses on my newer amps. It gives the TFB550's a slightly clearer upper mid-range. BTW, I have a Demeter VTBP-201s and an Aguilar DB 680 and I like them both. They both make a large SS power amps sound like tube amps. The Aguilar reminds me of my Showman. The Demeter has a totally excellent Jensen output transformer in it. None finer. I'll have to play the Demeter again. I might be getting an Alembic soon also. I've borrowed a Kern, but it wouldn't be fair to comment on it without playing it again. I thought it sounded good, but I can't compare the four yet.

 

[rok51]

My main head is the Alembic F-1X/PLX1602 into a pair of GS112s. It's definitely a keeper. Using the TF550 into the same cabs was simply wonderful. To my ear, the TF seemed to have a tighter handle on the bottom end-and the F-1X is definitely no slouch in that department. While the bridged PLX definitely has headroom to spare, the Thunderfunk had my volume needs covered without even breaking a sweat. The Thunderfunk is so versatile, soundwise, that I have decided to give my F-1X a well-deserved break. It is still my number 1...but the Thunderfunk is like number 1.2! Dave put one heck of a package together in this little jewel.

Kim

 

[jerry]

Jerry, Sounds like you have sensitive ears. I think that purity you talk about is what "The Switch" addresses on my newer amps.

Oh I don't doubt that for a second...........one of the reasons I'd like to upgrade to the Thunderfunk 550 in the near future BTW can the TF420 be upgraded to a 550?

 

[the dude]

Oh I don't doubt that for a second...........one of the reasons I'd like to upgrade to the Thunderfunk 550 in the near future BTW can the TF420 be upgraded to a 550?

yep.

 

[DAcat]

Hey Smash-I listened to your sound clips-I really liked stalker and esp the sound of your bass on that song. Of course there's nothing like hearing your rigs live...that's what I was hoping for- a description of how each sounds live, if you could do that...I just love that raw, low, fat, dark, meaty, bass tone that I rarely hear that is totally non-distorted, yet cuts thru the mix, but doesn't overpower the band ,yet drives the band. I think I'll be able to find a Schroeder cab to finally try out on my travels south this week,but I doubt I'll find a TF and Schroeder cab in the same place,so I'm hoping for a little expert help on how the Thunderfunk makes the Schroeders sound... Do you have a favorite amp yet to power your 1212,and why?...Peace...DAcat.

 

[Chef]

I run a TFB420 with either a Schroeder 1210 or 410 depending on venue size. It's a killer combo together.

For double bass I run the TFB flat, with timbre two clicks right, and some mids dialed out at 800 hz, and the low end bass dialed back two clicks. Enhance all the way to the right.

For electric, I set the whole thing back to flat, timbre one or two clicks left, enhance a couple clicks back from full right, and that's really about it depending on the bass.

For me, I can't imagine an easier to carry, easier to use combo than the TFB420 Schroeder 1210 package. It works really really well for both double bass and electric. Obvioulsy for DB, one wants a nice clean sound, and the TFB does that well-but you can dial in a wide range of other sounds with this amp quite readily. It can get, among other things, real dang close to the Aggy DB750 sound with just little bumps at 40hz, 400hz, and 4.5khz. Man, talk about flexible!

Thanks Dave and Jorg!

 

[John D Harris]

Hi. The Schroeders are ideal for the sound you describe, IMO. That's exactly how some players described my sound on a recent tour (playing large pubs w/o PA support, so what they heard was all from the cab). I'll just say that, while I like that low end "oomph" too, the 1212 has so much of it I'd still like to hear a 1210 to compare ... I keep forgetting a local guy has one so I'll try to get together with him sometime to A/B the cabs. On the 1212 I find myself dialing in a bit of mids to cut, but that wouldn't be necessary if I wasn't doing a lot of palm-muting with the tone rolled-off stuff. Everyone's situation is so different eh?

But as for the amps, so far I'd agree with what DMWilson wrote back in post 91 of this thread when he directly compared the two. I also use the almost identical EQing on the TF as he does, and I now have the same bass as well. We don't always like the same sounds, but we almost always hear them the same as we've found out over many threads, PMs, and gear deals. Can't thank him enough.

I'll reserve judgement on the volume. If there's a difference it isn't much, which is to be expected if the ratings are accurate. Headroom is something else, and I can't really comment there either as so far I find them to be very equal and similar.

You can read a bit about the gig I tried it on here, during which I also tried a new bass but it's not one that's much different than what I'm used to : http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2378514&postcount=32 I'll be back there gigging again this Saturday and might even try both heads for different sets. As-is, I've used my rig there several times and without perhaps a direct comparison I'm at a bit of a loss to tell a significant difference. Usually, even from memory, something will stand out as clearly better/worse/stronger/weaker, but not so on this compare.

I'd say again it'd be nice if the Aguilar knobs were tighter and had position reference markers. The relatively uncluttered Aguilar chassis looks great, but while the whole range of the EQ travel is usuable the sweet spot seems to be very close to flat (to my ears) and it's something I'm still finding my way on. I've been using the letters in the words above the knobs ('treble', 'bass') for reference (setting the Treble to "r" for example). The TF is much easier to EQ - that Timbre knob does so much and I too set it about 1 notch back from flat - but the Aguilar only has a few knobs so it's no chore to dial in either. The TF has that fancier EQ section, but like most I never use it.

Anyway, in the room mentioned above I had gain and volume both halfway up. No PA support, guitarist using a 50-watt tube 2x12, drummer loud when he wanted to be. Could've gone to about 75% on the gain without peaking and thus gotten much more volume without moving the master but the tone doesn't change so I saw no reason to push it - just saying you can go further unlike on many amps (rant below).

With the TF/Gibson, you can also go very high, if not all the way up, on the gain without clipping (neat trick!) and they also have very usable EQ (though perhaps more radical) with the sweet spots very close to flat, if not flat. In that room I also find myself normally at the 50/50 mark on both gain and volume on the Gibson/TF.

Note - in my experience, on a lot of amps any travel past about half on the pre/master vol gets you fast-tracked into clip'n'fart city. Not so witht he TF/Gibson or the Aguilar. IMO that's why it's so important to try gear on gigs. In the store or at home you might go to "3" and go "wow, that's loud, so at 9 it must be three times as loud!" but in reality you can't go much past 4 or 5 without it sounding like it'll explode. Similarly, ratings can become very apparently rubbish when using real frequency ranges in real live situations. But I digress - just saying that these amps haven't got that common problem.

Well, that's a whole lot of nothing isn't it? At present I can't discern any material differences and haven't got a "feeling" one way or the other either for which I prefer. I'll keep at it until the answer becomes clear. I'm no hurry as these are battling it out for my #2 or #3 slots (my Traynor Mono Block II is my #1, but unless I need to run 2 Ohms at extreme volumes I'm not usually of a mind to cart it around), and I can't go wrong with any of 'em.

Smash, could you give us a comparison/contrast between the TF and the Traynor Mono Block II?

 

[fclefgeoff]

This is a great thread and very handy since I have also narrowed my search down to Aggie and TF.

I have one question for David Wilson (or anyone else who could answer), I use a Fulltone Bass Drive and really like it as an OD. Would I really need to buy the Aggie 500 or do you think I could use my Fulltone with the Aggie 500 SC and be satisfied?

I would love to save a few hundred bucks and keep my pedal if possible. Any thoughts?

 

[rayzak]

This is a great thread and very handy since I have also narrowed my search down to Aggie and TF.

I have one question for David Wilson (or anyone else who could answer), I use a Fulltone Bass Drive and really like it as an OD. Would I really need to buy the Aggie 500 or do you think I could use my Fulltone with the Aggie 500 SC and be satisfied?

I would love to save a few hundred bucks and keep my pedal if possible. Any thoughts?

If you already love the Fulltone, there's really no need for the AG500. The 500SC should suit you just fine.... as would the 'Funk.

 

[David Wilson]

I have one question for David Wilson (or anyone else who could answer), I use a Fulltone Bass Drive and really like it as an OD. Would I really need to buy the Aggie 500 or do you think I could use my Fulltone with the Aggie 500 SC and be satisfied?

I would love to save a few hundred bucks and keep my pedal if possible. Any thoughts?

Like Rayzak said, you'll get by with the ag500sc just fine, save your pennies

 

[John D Harris]

Hi Lo-Freq. With apologies to all for the topical detour (well, there is TF content) ...

The Traynor is quieter and capable of the same volume. There's a similarity in design in so far as they're both tried-and-true fairly simple chassis-as-heat-sink designs. Obviously the TF comes with the modern bells & whistles (DI, Speakon, Limiter and more), is easier to EQ, and smaller/lighter.

The 'Block is about 32 lbs and roughly the size of a 2.5u shallow rack. On the plus side, it's got to be the toughest amp ever made. If you ever see one in person, you won't doubt it. It has no fancy features - just a very well-voiced (but not semi-parametric) active 5-band EQ with nice big sliders, 3 rotary EQ, gain, master, preamp out and power amp in. Non-detachable power cord and two speaker outs of course. All 1/4". Like the TF, the 'Block stays unusually free of breakup all the way up on the gain and master. Your speakers will likely break up and explode long before these amps will.

If I had to strip it down to one line, I'd say the Traynor has a pleasant very faint grind (roundness?) in the mids that's just perfect in a mix. I'd say the same about the Gibson GB440 by comparison too, and my limited knowledge plus the input of a couple electrical engineers who are also amp freaks leads me to believe it's in part due to the old op-amps & caps being built to lower tolerances. Technically inferior, but to some ears musically sweeter.

In occasional half-hearted attempts to get these reverse-engineered and perhaps mass-manufactured in a modern/light box, I've been told that's where I'd fall short - that the modern chips can't give that same sound and the old ones can no longer be had in bulk. I hope Mr. Funk won't mind if I say that he's agreed on that likely making the difference.

That said, it's not a mid-machine. You can easily get a boom car sound if you want it. Just that it can do things in the mids that the TF won't. Like any good amp, it can be used for any style of music, but I'll say the mids along with its toughness and 2 ohms capability make it ideal for hard-gigging rockers that require maximum volume (via stacks of cabs) and simplicity (not in use, but in things that can go wrong). Since that ain't me, I prefer to carry a small/lighter amp hence my participation in the on-topic portion of this thread.

In these clips (all a two-mic blend on a Schroder 1212 at higher than my gigging volumes) both amps were set not far off flat, but both slightly tweaked to take advantage of their different mids, mostly. The TF may seem to have a bigger bottom, but that's coincidence that the tracks I used it on benefitted from more lows in the mix vs. busier tracks I used the 'Block on (plus the passive tone setting and playing style on the basses for a given track - hard plucking with tone maxed on some vs. tone rolloff and heavy palm muting on others ... you get the idea). Could've done this entire CD with only either amp, but I wanted to use a variety of gear for fun and I figured the clips would come in handy so with apologies to those who've heard 'em before (they might be of interest to those researching Thunderfunk amps?) ...


'78 fretless P bass, Thunderfunk. Invalid Link Removed

Roscoe Beck 5, Traynor Mono Block II.
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'78 fretted P bass (Bart 8S pickup), Thunderfunk.
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Rocoe Beck 5, Traynor.
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'74 J, Traynor.
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'74 J, Thunderfunk.
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Caveat : Not all Traynors share these qualities, and especially not the newer/Yorkville ones. Their stuff has always been a good bang for the buck, and frequently innovative (anyone scoffing at that ... first 8x10 cab, first bass head over 300 watts, first wedge monitors were all Traynor) ... where was I ... yeah, always been good reliable gear, but this unit is uniquely exceptional (IMO/IME/etc.) and rare so that's why I call it my #1 as its comparatively irreplaceable (plus indestructible, and does 2 Ohms).

Thank you!
Both amps seem to have plenty of punch.
I think I can hear what you're talking about in the mids.
Studio-wise, I think I'd prefer the TF sound.
Live gig, I'd have to hear both in that context.
The clips sound really good!