Times when it went differently

[LBS-bass]

I'd bet he would respond more or less the way he had, but if he hadn't, he had a warning about how I'd respond. Not a threat, a warning. Threats suck, warnings are healthy IMO.

I agree. Sometimes you just make a decision about what you're going to do if things don't change, and just lay that out so that there are no surprises. I had a similar thing once where I decided I couldn't work with a particular player anymore because he was not practicing at home and was bringing a very inconsistent level of playing to the stage.

It was cyclical - he'd screw up royally on one show and the next he'd work a little harder and pull off a decent performance. But his bad nights were so bad that I was never comfortable sharing video or inviting people out to hear me play with them.

We did try talking with him but nothing changed - he was also a drinker and he had personal issues with me, I guess. Someone else said he probably had a crush on me, I don't know, but whatever, it was clear that he had some weirdness going on.

Eventually I got tired of the inconsistency and just told the rest of the band that I couldn't do it anymore and I was leaving. They fired him instead.

 

[MtManiac]

Not an inability. Unwillingness. He was doing it on purpose. I know people like that, sadly, they've decided to take up cruelty to everyone who crosses their path as a lifestyle. Not even receiving the inevitable beatdown stops them in any way from doing it.

I make it a point never to play with people like that, both because I find them morally abhorrent and because they threaten my physical safety in addition to their own with every remark that comes out of the poop factory they call a mouth.

He was definitely doing it on purpose - thus the side eyes at me. Provocative. A-hole.

 

[MtManiac]

I agree. Sometimes you just make a decision about what you're going to do if things don't change, and just lay that out so that there are no surprises. I had a similar thing once where I decided I couldn't work with a particular player anymore because he was not practicing at home and was bringing a very inconsistent level of playing to the stage. It was cyclical - he's screw up royally on one show and the next he'd work a little harder an pull off a decent performance. But his bad nights were so bad that I was never comfortable sharing video or inviting people out to hear me play with them. We did try talking with him but nothing changed - he was also a drinker and he had personal issues with me, I guess. Someone else said he probably had a crush on me, I don't know, but whatever it was clear that he had some weirdness going on.

Eventually I got tired of the inconsistency and just told the rest of the band that I couldn't do it anymore and I was leaving. They fired him instead.

My ex-singer was also an alcoholic. They're the worst. I get that it's an illness, addiction is terrible, I'm a smoker and I get it to a point. My experience with alcoholics isn't positive, and I find that they're all narcissists, unable to see boundaries - but it's simultaneously a choice they're making, disrespecting boundaries that is, willfully and defiantly sometimes. Even joyfully, to the extent that they're capable of experiencing joy - always at someone else's expense it seems.

Sounds like a similar situation.

 

[rutrho]

With your former singer as an example, I usually find that folks like that don't ever change no matter how much folks will talk through problems or issues with them. To those ends, when folks start that kind of stuff I don't even bother trying to talk it out and I just cut them out of my life. Its not worth the safety risk to have those arguments with the typical cis, het, angry, white male because they can very easily turn violent.

As an aside, I don't know how comfortable and out your daughter is, but uhhhhhh, the world is rapidly becoming a massively hostile place for us, so I'd rethink about bringing up that aspect of her medical history unless she's comfortable with you doing so in contexts like this.

 

[MtManiac]

As an aside, I don't know how comfortable and out your daughter is, but uhhhhhh, the world is rapidly becoming a massively hostile place for us, so I'd rethink about bringing up that aspect of her medical history unless she's comfortable with you doing so in contexts like this.

GD it, and here I am with a naked user name, f#%k.

Where were you early this morning, pre-coffee, and I'm on Talkbass blabbing other people's business??

Ugh, I feel terrible. Thank you for pointing this out. With a few quotes I don't think I can actually remove it, but I can delete my post. Thanks again for mentioning this, I'm an a-hole.

 

[aero58]

My ex-singer was also an alcoholic. They're the worst....My experience with alcoholics isn't positive, and I find that they're all narcissists....

Unfortunate for your past experiences; but to be clear, especially since this thread is dealing with "communication", to label all alcoholics as narcissists is a massive over-generalization, and in truth, not all are as you describe....Having read this entire thread from the start, I don't mean to de-rail it and get off topic, but I can't let that one go without commenting.

 

[MtManiac]

Unfortunate for your past experiences; but to be clear, especially since this thread is dealing with "communication", to label all alcoholics as narcissists is a massive over-generalization, and in truth, not all are as you describe....Having read this entire thread from the start, I don't mean to de-rail it and get off topic, but I can't let that one go without commenting.

"In my experience" is 100% accurate, I'm not labeling anyone outside of my experience.

 

[aero58]

"In my experience" is 100% accurate, I'm not labeling anyone outside of my experience.

Good enough for me. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[rutrho]

GD it, and here I am with a naked user name, f#%k.

Where were you early this morning, pre-coffee, and I'm on Talkbass blabbing other people's business??

Ugh, I feel terrible. Thank you for pointing this out. With a few quotes I don't think I can actually remove it, but I can delete my post. Thanks again for mentioning this, I'm an a-hole.

Sadly, such operational security has been a pretty constant part of our lives for the last couple years.
It really, really sucks. For folks in your position, it can be a bit of a challenge to really start looking at things in that context, which is why I wanted to mention something about it.

 

[OldShark]

Thanks again for mentioning this, I'm an a-hole.

While I also appreciate rutrho's hint, I want to say thanks for sharing your band's story, and I'm really impressed by your clear action to protect your kid there.

Just another dad of a trans kid.

 

[MtManiac]

Sadly, such operational security has been a pretty constant part of our lives for the last couple years.
It really, really sucks. For folks in your position, it can be a bit of a challenge to really start looking at things in that context, which is why I wanted to mention something about it.

I'm truly glad you did - I can't delete it now (why??) but I reported it and requested deletion.

 

[LBS-bass]

GD it, and here I am with a naked user name, f#%k.

Where were you early this morning, pre-coffee, and I'm on Talkbass blabbing other people's business??

Ugh, I feel terrible. Thank you for pointing this out. With a few quotes I don't think I can actually remove it, but I can delete my post. Thanks again for mentioning this, I'm an a-hole.

Fortunately for you, you have a fairly common name and this forum is relatively obscure, so the odds that anyone's going to run across this who isn't a bassist are small, which means that the odds of anyone running across it who isn't a bassist AND would also wish harm on someone's family and would also figure out who you are, are very small. I would not worry, but yeah, good to take these things under advisement.

 

[Dirtnap]

With your former singer as an example, I usually find that folks like that don't ever change no matter how much folks will talk through problems or issues with them. To those ends, when folks start that kind of stuff I don't even bother trying to talk it out and I just cut them out of my life. Its not worth the safety risk to have those arguments with the typical cis, het, angry, white male because they can very easily turn violent.

As an aside, I don't know how comfortable and out your daughter is, but uhhhhhh, the world is rapidly becoming a massively hostile place for us, so I'd rethink about bringing up that aspect of her medical history unless she's comfortable with you doing so in contexts like this.

While I completely agree it may not be worth the risk to argue with angry people, you could have left it at that. The racist and sexist implications, however, are not appreciated.

 

[MtManiac]

While I completely agree it may not be worth the risk to argue with angry people, you could have left it at that. The racist and sexist implications, however, are not appreciated.

As logical functions, the commas indicate that all of those attributes are applicable, not just some, which means it applies specifically to cis het white men *who are also angry* and is therefore neither racist nor sexist. Implicitly, the particular anger is directed against trans people, and if you're not trans or close to someone who's trans, you have very little experience upon which to draw to argue against the point; it's best for all to just accept that it's not referring to you, since you're not angry at trans people, and accept that some people have truth you don't ever get to experience, and that your inability to experience it doesn't make it not true. For example, child birth is painful for most people who deliver babies; that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt when you hit your thumb with a hammer, but nobody caring about your thumb doesn't mean that childbirth isn't painful.

Trans people and trans women in particular have learned who represent their biggest threats to personal safety, and they get to say who represents those threats. They know better than you do and it's not racist or sexist to say so.

If however you are angry at trans people *and* the rest of the attributes also apply, then, well, thanks for self identifying.

 

[frankie5string]

From my perspective, I'm thankful that I can become so busy for long stretches of time. I generally bow out of situations quite quickly when there is abuse or failure to perform.
My general quickness to step away sometimes results in the rest of the band getting rid of the perpetrator just to keep me - otherwise, I'm off and running with the next project and they usually know they won't get me back.

 

[LBS-bass]

From my perspective, I'm thankful that I can become so busy for long stretches of time. I generally bow out of situations quite quickly when there is abuse or failure to perform.
My general quickness to step away sometimes results in the rest of the band getting rid of the perpetrator just to keep me - otherwise, I'm off and running with the next project and they usually know they won't get me back.

I'm fortunate to be in a similar boat, and I guess that's one thing to think about. Someone above pointed out that the person in the post that inspired mine was in a smaller town where there are fewer opportunities. I guess that is a consideration, and part of the whole business of learning through experience happens due to experiences.

When I think long enough about why these sorts of situations make me squirm when they come up here, I realize it's because I don't like seeing the implication that bending over backwards is always equal to "being the better person" in a situation. I really think a lot of harm can be done by people who take advantage of other people, and part of that harm is in the form of guilt trips that get laid on by others who are quick to judge with these sorts of comments. And I really think that it takes a lot of bravery to stand up and say "enough" sometimes, because there's very little support for it when you do. You either have to be strong enough to withstand the waves of judgment or you have to be gruff enough that you just don't care, like I am. And with age also comes the sense that there's not a lot of time to waste in bad situations. I want to be sure that the things I spend my time with are likely to have positive outcomes.

Many times it makes perfect sense to seek clarification. But not every time. And I guess if I can convey a message with this sort of thread it's that sometimes you're better off listening to what your gut is telling you rather than taking on additional responsibility (and guilt) over situations that are likely to be unfulfilling to the point of toxicity. Only you (you in the greater sense) know what your gut is telling you, in any case.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Good enough for me. Thanks for the clarification.

I am replying to your post because BillMason is showing NPD in his reply's

Your original post on this was warranted.

This quote is accurate in my experience and seems to me all Humans are Narcissistic somewhat in levels up to Sociopathic.

"Narcissism is a personality trait that in some people can be part of narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) and alcoholism is a substance use disorder, but the two are linked and share similar qualities. Narcissists can become alcoholics and alcoholics can be particularly narcissistic when drunk. Many alcoholics are not narcissists when they're sober. "

 

[rutrho]

While I completely agree it may not be worth the risk to argue with angry people, you could have left it at that. The racist and sexist implications, however, are not appreciated.

Lolololololololol.
Hold on, lemme go laugh some more.

hahhahahahahahahahahaahhahahahaa.

You're funny.