A hard lesson learned in my book. The wisdom to discern when the stove is hot takes some experience to build.
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Times when it went differently
- Thread starter LBS-bass
- Start date
A hard lesson learned in my book. The wisdom to discern when the stove is hot takes some experience to build.
Yes, it might well have been the way it went down. But again, do these details matter?
To be frank, if someone told me this is what happened I'd have laughed and told him he got exactly what he deserved for being in too big a rush to show some respect to the people who had been helping him. And then I would have bailed anyway.
Knowing these details satisfies a bit of curiosity, but it doesn't add anything to whether or not the BL is a poor decision maker (at the most generous interpretation possible, in my view). Nobody had a gun to this BLs head to produce this record in such a hurry that he could not honor his commitments to the other players.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Again @LBS-bass you are basing your opinion on your own past. I've read plenty of threads here where the OP did not give all the information in his/her first post, or maybe just had a skewed outlook (not just in band management), and when all the facts come out, the story changes. You appear mature - not everyone here does. I just think it is worth making an informed decision.
I had a co-worker who, for some reason, just took an instant and massive dislike to me when I was first hired. I didn't even work directly with the guy. It was getting super weird with everyone coming up to me and asking me what the deal was. I had no idea and told them so. It frankly was blowing back on him pretty hard, as I tend to be a fairly likeable co-worker. So I basically just asked the guy what his problem was one day.
He said "I just don't like you"
Then he quit a few days later and moved to Sacramento. So from my perspective, this was resolved in an extremely positive way.
(edit to add: I think his problem was this: we were a classical-only shop staffed by a bunch of guys from the conservatory, plus one jazz guy. I was the first non-guitar player they had ever hired, and also the first one who'd had a LOT of music retail experience. I think there was some culture shock going on, and I think some of the guys realized that things were going to be changing, which they did.)
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Indeed, my reaction was to cut all ties with the guy. We were only rehearsing, but I was imagining all the things that could have gone wrong if we were actually gigging and money was involved. Sometimes you just gotta be safe and see them for who they are. I had some trouble letting go, because I understand the position he is in and I might have been the only bassplayer willing to play with him. But I would be stepping into a risky situation. I understand now that he needs therapy before starting a new band. If we had remained friends I could have helped him a lot with my own experience in the field of psychology but sometimes people just need their life to crash before they realize they are the problem. He's still trying to get bandmates but I don't think he will succeed. It's a shame, he's got great songs and he's very motivated but he's looking for people who will overlook his obvious mental problems.
Whose past should I be basing my opinions on? Experience is a teacher and we can all share the benefit of our experience with others if we like.
Again, I'll say this. If we can't take it in good faith that a situation is somewhat as described, there's no point in offering advice at all. Or at least we start there, ask relevant questions, and receive more info.
Someone here brought up a recent post where the OP had left out some important details that changed much of the advice. That's fine. He eventually corrected the omission when he realized it was relevant, and received good advice based on the amended description. I think we have to assume that most people here are posting in good faith and providing what they know and that when it becomes clear to an OP that something was omitted that matters, they'll tell us.
Otherwise it's all just a big crap shoot and we're out here throwing darts at random, which is a waste of everyone's time.
But again, this is mostly not relevant to the sort of situation I'm talking about. A stove can be hot or cold. You get close to it, you know which it is. You don't have to get burned by it to understand that it can hurt you.
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I have a queer kid.
Good job sticking up for your girl.
She loves you more now and might not even know why.
Good job, dad.
Good job sticking up for your girl.
She loves you more now and might not even know why.
Good job, dad.
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Yes, I realize that, and that's the reason/excuse we were given. However, from our perspective those songs would never had been written at all if they hadn't been inspired by the fully completed music that the other two of us provided. The words and melody were written TO the music we provided. Live and learn, though.
I agree.
I love that you stuck up for your daughter in this way.
This story illustrates both sides of this argument in a beautiful way.
First you have the singer, whose inability to stop tossing around what amounts (in my view) to hate speech was eventually going to be a problem for everyone. I'm imagining that guy at a bar on a break, mouthing off to the wrong person. Or worse, making commentary like that from the stage. Those are a couple of scenarios that could end pretty badly.
It sounds like nobody felt like they needed to have a conversation with that guy in order to figure out how to better understand his behavior and maybe rein it in. Once he'd shown that he couldn't control himself in the presence of one of his "targets," it seems like it was pretty clear to everyone what needed to be done.
The guitarist, on the other hand, seems like the kind of guy who maybe laughs nervously and goes along to get along. Maybe in the past no one ever called him out for it. Maybe he thinks it's a way to keep the peace, by going along. But he wasn't the instigator. So it was reasonable to talk with him about how you felt, and it seems like the end result was positive all around.
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This scenario is different because you had an appointed manager and the biggest disrespect came from the manager when he decided to let the other guy's disrespect continue. Why did you go speak to the manager? For all the same reasons we advise others to talk to the problem person - maybe the manager didn't realize what was going on, maybe the manager didn't know you felt disrespected by it, maybe you wanted to give the manager a chance to fix the problem before leaving, etc. Same reasons.
I read the thread you're talking about and the OP said he was in a small town and didn't think he'd be able to find another band if he left. If that were accurate, then maybe he'd be better off leaving with the other guys knowing that he gave the BL a chance to fix things, and thus not burning bridges with the other bandmates and preserving his chances to play with them in the future. Also, after investing so much time into a project isn't it worth giving the other guy an opportunity to fix things before throwing it all away? The goal isn't necessarily to fix things, but to know for yourself and for others that you did your part to fix it before leaving.
If you read the thread this post was responding to, that person was a sales manager and this scenario is similar to something he might have dealt with, which is why I wanted his thoughts on it.
My assumption, based on his post, is that he would have attempted to get me and the other salesperson to have a conversation, if he'd been my manager. What would we have said to each other that would have made that situation better moving forward?
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Not an inability. Unwillingness. He was doing it on purpose. I know people like that, sadly, they've decided to take up cruelty to everyone who crosses their path as a lifestyle. Not even receiving the inevitable beatdown stops them in any way from doing it.
I make it a point never to play with people like that, both because I find them morally abhorrent and because they threaten my physical safety in addition to their own with every remark that comes out of the poop factory they call a mouth.
note to self: don't piss off @mcnach
Nah, you're okay... and there's always ample warning
Yes, but not just that. When someone you're in a band with says or does something offensive and you (1) don't say anything about it and (2) stay in that band with that person then you can be seen as condoning and/or agreeing with those words or actions.
In that situation, since you couldn't repo the item from the second customer, I would have given you the commission on the deal, assuming the layaway was within company policy and the other salesperson broke the established rules. That was a weak manager. I never let my people intentionally screw each other over, but I wanted all the details before deciding anything.
In your place, my conversation with the other salesperson would have been likely less than friendly, but I wouldn't have left without everyone, including the owner, know what happened and how I felt about it.
We always ran our dealership with a no hold, no deposit policy. First person to sign the contract and pay (or qualify) drove the car away. In California a deposit does nothing to protect the dealer's interest and you have to refund it if the customer changes their mind.
@LBS-bass
Another thing I always had a policy about was documenting every contact, from the first greeting through every follow-up call until the deal was done. Then it was easy to trace who should get credit or half credit on any deal.
Some of the salespeople hated it because it also made it easy to calculate everyone's closing ratio.
Another thing I always had a policy about was documenting every contact, from the first greeting through every follow-up call until the deal was done. Then it was easy to trace who should get credit or half credit on any deal.
Some of the salespeople hated it because it also made it easy to calculate everyone's closing ratio.
Pretty much what I did. We had a fairly simple layaway policy; whoever wrote up the sale was responsible for acquiring the correct deposit for the hold (can't recall the percentage now) and following up to make sure the item was paid for and retrieved within some stated period (again, can't remember, might have been a month or 90 days or something). After that period expired, we were expected to follow-up with the customers to get them to finalize the sale and if we couldn't we'd let them know that the item was going back into inventory. The deposit, IIRC, was not refundable. Though in practice, and as a matter of goodwill, we would sometimes cancel and refund with store credit in order to at least keep the customer happy.
What no one there had ever done in the five years I'd worked there was to cancel a layaway and then re-sell the item.
If my customer had come in to pick that up during my day off, that salesperson would have been within his rights to complete the sale and add his code to the transaction so that the commission would be split between the two of us. But that's not what happened.
The manager was the son of the store owner, so everyone was informed. The owner had effectively retired by then so the manager was pretty much running the show. They were losing money hand over fist at that time due to early internet competition and a sudden inability to compete. What had always been a fairly honorable situation was rapidly deteriorating into a cutthroat level of competition and nobody was keeping up. I get it, that guy had kids at home and mouths to feed, but it was clearly time to get out of the way and let them all self-destruct, which they eventually did.
Thanks! Your OP really got me, so I had to respond. The singer knew what he was doing, and I decided discussion was pointless, and instead just took responsibility for my own boundaries. I think that's all you can do in some situations, but the guitar player for example - I'd bet he would respond more or less the way he had, but if he hadn't, he had a warning about how I'd respond. Not a threat, a warning. Threats suck, warnings are healthy IMO.
Thanks for your support, I wasn't sure what I'd receive here, I know that a lot of people these days have a real issue with trans people for whatever reason. Thanks for being decent.
Those people...no comment.
Open arms, here, for you and your daughter.
Congrats to you on loving your kid for who she is.
I'm sorry the two of you experience judgment and negativity as a result of her simply living her truth.
We got you covered here - at least me and LBS, and I'm sure many, many, more do to.
