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To add a 15 inch speaker or not

Hm, and how does a "second cab" extend the low end that the OP is after?
Of course a second cab may lower f3 a little bit but, from where do you know that this little extension was quite good enough for the OP's sound goal he is after?

It is a false assumption that larger drivers produce lower frequencies. It's simply not true. It's all about cabinet tuning. The vast majority of 410 cabs I have played can produce way more "low end" than most 15 cabs.

Also, mixing cabs and driver sizes is often a recipe for disaster. Phase cancelation CAN be a problem. It's a roll of the dice.

In short, most single 15 cabs would not help OP. They would add very little volume and likely no more "low end". There are exceptions. But they aren't cheap.
 
It may help... but it would have nothing to do with the 15".
Except that radiation impedance of any acoustical source depends on surface area and frequency.
This does not mean that a bigger cone would always provide a lower f3, it can also be the other way round but, in total a higher radiation impedance (makes more of sound (SPL), even at the lowish side of the bandwidth.


Low end, or otherwise, has nothing to do with the diameter of teh speakers in a cab, and everything to do with the design.
Low end is not the same as SPL. HiFi loudspeakers have very low f3 but can't push loudness levels in a way how it is needed by bass players on stage or at rehearsal room with a band where a drummer is playing and guitar players with Marshall amps.

The diameter in combination with the frequency determines the radiation impedance. The larger the diameter the higher the radiation imedance will be, the lower the frequency the smaller the radiation impedance will be, and vice versa.

True, something such as low end has to do with cab design but, I wouldn't suggest an underdamped ported cab that provides "good low end" for amplifiers such as a Bassman 135.
For critical damped cabs there is very little (if any) possible trade offs given to design for things such as extended "low end".

Get a second identical speaker, place it together with the other one, and you will get more low end.

Personally I have to add nothing to anything cause I don't look for an additional cab to add to my existing ones.
If I was in OP's shoes and would try to add an additional cab I'd suggest him:

But as usual, it all depends. And as I already told above its a good idea to try all options you have in store BEFORE you buy anything.
I think he also could check in a store if the matching route may bring him to the sound goal he is locking for.
 
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The cheapest way out is to stick the cab in the corner or closer to the wall, adjust the "bass" (and possibly your low mids dial too) dial on your amp and bass guitar.

I gave up.on mixing speaker sizes years ago. Not that they didn't sound good but simply put, I did not want to load, unload 2 heavy cabs twice in one night. Plus, I've lost count of how many 10" speakers I've destroyed over the years..
Now, I simply run a 215/800/4ohm cab.
I do not get lost in any mix now.
 
I am not gigging so I humbly submit this...
...how hard are you "digging in"? A lightly plucked string gives a different sound. Also, some methods of fingering give more fundamental.

I loved the "thump" of 15" speakers "back in the day", but what you describe sounds more like headroom or something on the bass.

To me, anyway... a humble "bass hobbyist".
 
It is a false assumption that larger drivers produce lower frequencies.
It was also false to assume that smaller drivers provide the same radiation impedance as the large ones.
Of course its possible to "stack" several small drivers which then in total provide a similar radiation impedance as a large one.
But in this case you'd have at least two electrical motors instead of one where only one motor can already do the job.

For the 410 vers 115 cosndiseration. To me it makes no sense nothing at all to buy and "schlepp" four motors where already ONE motor can already do the job (at low end) cause the motor drives a bigger cone in this case, thus "works" more efficient!

It's simply not true. It's all about cabinet tuning.
Nope, its not, not this way cause amplifiers such as a Fender Bassman don't "easily" tolerate soundwise "any" tuning yet it was still possible with SS amplifiers.

The vast majority of 410 cabs I have played can produce way more "low end" than most 15 cabs.
In this case I suppose these 410 cabs have shy mids at best (loaded with Legend BP110 or something similar) while the most part of 115's have drivers such as EVM 15L inside

Also, mixing cabs and driver sizes is often a recipe for disaster.
Sometimes it is, yes, but not often, may be my experience of about 45 years playing the bass guitar is too short to confirm "often".

Phase cancelation CAN be a problem. It's a roll of the dice.
CAN be, yes, but if you have a look on rather generic "standard" designs for instrumental bass guitar cabs you'll notice some "ballpark".
It makes me anyway alwyas little bit wondering WHY the matching camp frequently refers to "phase issues" while the more meaningfull issue of different group delay is totally obsolete in most part of all discussions by these folks.
Here you are:
Considerations on group delay of different cabs loaded with same driver


In first instance group delay relates to the damping of a cab.
Group delay of course is a "delay", but its not the same delay in the same meaning you'd get if two sources where of different distance to to your ears and than produce comb filter effects.
Group delay is very different to that!
If you would design a cab to get as much low end as possible you'll likely get lots of "critical" group delay involved.
If you would suggest a cab like this (with good extended low end) for an amplifier such as a Bassman, you might not do a good job to the OP who asked you a question!

In short, most single 15 cabs would not help OP.
I think it should belong in the OP's freedom of choice (and option) to check it all out in a store. And as I told above, it also may be he goes with the matching route if this fits his sound goals better.

They would add very little volume and likely no more "low end".
As I already told above, the OP should not expect "tons of sound". And even ~3dB with a matching cab is already little.
The question is, how much amount of little is too little to have an benefical effect?

There are exceptions. But they aren't cheap.
[/QUOTE]
The 115 cab I'm currently practicing with a band in rehearsal room is a pretty good and "deep" sounding cab. Its a Harley Benton cab respectively 115 combo. Hard to imagine it was an very expensive combo/cab.
 
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Hi All,

Currently playing a fender bassman (master volume) through an ampeg 410 cabinet. All in all, I like the sound, it's fighting against two fuzzy guitars and a pretty heavy hitting drummer. Sometimes though, the low end does get a little lost in our rehearsal room and am wondering if that's something I can remedy with the addition of 15 inch speaker. I've had a look through here and couldn't find a similar thread, apologies admin if one already exists.

Anybody here ever done this before, for what reason and what were the results?

Many thanks in advance.
Get another 410. Or, get yourself the 610hlf instead. And sell your 410 to help with the cost. Your low end will never be lost, your volume will increase, and it is a fairly simple cabinet to move around and transport.

20220310_203957.jpg
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I still like 2/15 cabinets but 2/12s today seem to peck.:bassist:
I have got a 212 but wouldn't go with it with less power than my SVT.
2/15 is likely not the format for me to be happy with, but I ain't the OP.
810 fridge is fine, I have got one, but I ain't the OP.

How about a SVP Pro preamp and a Powersoft Digam 5000 amplifier?
I have got both. I think this was enough tube sound and amp power to make plenty of (low) sound with an ampeg 410 cab.
My EV Eliminator i-series cabs sub+top also do provide a very good sound for bass guitar.
But I think, that's nothing to do with the OP he was ever interested in...
 
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Get another 410. Or, get yourself the 610hlf instead. And sell your 410 to help with the cost. Your low end will never be lost, your volume will increase, and it is a fairly simple cabinet to move around and transport.
ok,
we have got one "matching party" that tries to tell that the adding of 115 to a 410 does gain only little of additional sound (which is not worth of it)
They would add very little volume
while the other one tries to tell that adding of 2x10 to 410 provides considerably more of sound.
your volume will increase,

And who is right?
I don't know! As long as the matching camps disagree themself?
 
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ok,
we have got one "matching party" that tries to tell that the adding of 115 to a 410 does gain only little of additional sound (which is not worth of it)

while the other one tries to tell that adding of 2x10 to 410 provides considerably more of sound.


And who is right?
I don't know! As long as the matching camps disagree themself?
You make no sense. Adding an 8ohm 210 to an 8 ohm 410, will just give you a stressed out 210 and a quiet 410. Pretty much the same volume you had before.

I said buy the 610, or another 410he
 
I have got a 212 but wouldn't go with it with less power than my SVT.
2/15 is likely not the format for me to be happy with, but I ain't the OP.
810 fridge is fine, I have got one, but I ain't the OP.

How about a SVP Pro preamp and a Powersoft Digam 5000 amplifier?
I have got both. I think this was enough tube sound and amp power to make plenty of (low) sound with an ampeg 410 cab.
My EV Eliminator i-series cabs sub+top also do provide a very good sound for bass guitar.
But I think, that's nothing to do with the OP he was ever interested in...
410s have more area than 212s. Generally louder, cleaner, and have more low end. Also heavier.
 
ok,
we have got one "matching party" that tries to tell that the adding of 115 to a 410 does gain only little of additional sound (which is not worth of it)

while the other one tries to tell that adding of 2x10 to 410 provides considerably more of sound.


And who is right?
I don't know! As long as the matching camps disagree themself?
Although there may be exceptions, I think the odds of a good pairing are better with 210 and 410 from the same product line versus a 115 and 410 from the same product line.

You have to consider each specific combination. In some instances adding a 115 to a 410 actually causes the max SPL to go down. Here's a relevant post I wrote a few months back: 2" vs 2,5" voice coil in new GK CX cabs, what's the difference?

The post discussed pairing a 410 and 115 from the same product line. If both cabs are 8 ohms the 410 can play louder than both cabs together.

If the 410 is 4 ohms and the 115 is 8 ohms, the max SPL is slightly higher than if both cabs are 8 ohms. However the Max SPL of the 410 by itself is exactly the same as the max SPL of both cabs; so why bother with the extra cost and weight.

I have no idea how well these two cab's phase and group delay characteristics match. Maybe they will pair well, or maybe they won't.

AFAIK if you go with a 4-ohm 410 and an 8-ohm 210 the max SPL goes up about 3dB. This is assuming the cabs use the same drivers and have the same tuning. If cabs use the same drivers and tuning, they should work well together.
 
If a 410 doesn't give you what you need in a rehearsal room, everybody needs to turn down! Have you measured the decibels? You could be causing some serious damage to your hearing.

Your perceived lack of low end has more to do with the design and limitations of the room, not the low end frequency response of your 410 - which should be enough to handle most mid-sized gigs).

Instead of adding a cabinet, try a HPF to remove the lowest frequencies and let your cabinet work more efficiently at producing low mids.
 
They would add very little volume
You make no sense. Adding an 8ohm 210 to an 8 ohm 410, will just give you a stressed out 210 and a quiet 410. Pretty much the same volume you had before.
Where did I tell something about a 8 Ohm 210 and a 8 Ohm 410?

The OP has got a Bassman and can run safely either a 4 Ohm cab (or two of them) or a 8 Ohm cab (or two of them).

The ampeg 610 cab is a 4 Ohm cab that he can safely run with his Bassman. And he also can run his existing 410 safely with his Bassman.

If he goes for a 610 then he actually will add 210 to 410, cause his previous cab was 410.
And he will get the the same power out of his Bassman cause the impedance of the amp can be matched to either 4 Ohm or 8 Ohm.


Here you are with the ampeg specs.

410HE
Frequency Response (-3dB): 60Hz-18kHz
Usable Low Frequency (-10dB): 43Hz
Nominal Impedance: 8-Ohms
Sensitivity: 98dB

610HLF
Frequency Response (-3dB): 53Hz-18kHz
Usable Low Frequency (-10dB): 42Hz
Nominal Impedance: 4-Ohms
Sensitivity: 98dB

15E
Frequency Response (-3dB): 50Hz-3kHz
Usable Low Frequency (-10dB): 33Hz
Nominal Impedance: 8-Ohms
Sensitivity: 98dB


If the OP goes for the 610HLF he will get some more of low end with the 610HLF but he will get NOT more of volume cause the 410HE and the 610HLF have got the same Sensitivity that equals 98dB.
That's not very surprising cause the 610HLF is well known for its decent low end reponse but simultaneously somewhat mediocre sensitivity (for a cab of this format and size).

If the OP goes for another 410 then he will get with both cabs in combination a sensitivity that equals 101dB and a somewhat lower -3dB response due to coupling of two sources (two cabs).
The -3dB point for one cab equals 60Hz. May be with both matching cabs in combination the -3dB point might equal ~57Hz at best.

If the OP adds the 15E to the 410HE he will get a sensitivity that also equals 101dB (same sensitivity as it was for another 410). He will get some extended low end cause the 15E response -3dB point equals 50Hz. And he will (in addition) get some extra low end due to the coupling of sources (same beneficial effect as it was for the matching route).

I said buy the 610, or another 410he

And I said its anyway a good idea to check all possible options in a store BEFORE you buy anything!
 
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