To add a 15 inch speaker or not

[ThisBass]

If I was really nitpicking enough I could suggest to go with sealed cabs for the Bassman amplifier, and this way may confuse the OP even more than he might already be.
Or at least suggest to go with ported cabs that are at least critical damped.

Before I would buy a 610HLF for a Bassman amplifier I'd try it in a store if the 610HLF does accomplish well to a Bassman.
For ampeg tube amps a cab such as the 610HLF may be by far not as problematic as it COULD happen with a Bassman.

With seald cabs those possible "issues" in regards of cab "damping" that can happen with tube amps (such as a Bassman) are almost always obsolete.

 

[MrB64]

I'm wondering about looking at this from the perspective of what frequencies our cabinet seeking friend is pushing on his 410. What are his settings? I've tried getting over two guitarists and drums before, and it can be hard in an enclosed rehearsal space. To be heard, possibly dropping the lows a bit and pushing some mids up might help it to cut through. Just a thought.

 

[Maulraizor]

Im not an expert in this realm at all, but I can tell you what I did and it works for me. Unfortunately, it cost an arm and a leg. As one who is not an expert, my recommendation would be to pursue more head room. Working with less than 150 watts power is going to be tough to compete with drums and 2 guitars. Your jam space can make the problem even worse. Eventually, I got tired of hearing drummers say "turn up, we cant hear you" and I bought an 1200 watt head and 810 cab. Now, they are the ones telling me to turn down. Mission accomplished! That said, I would no longer recommend that route. I rented a 300 watt GK head and an Ampeg PN410HLF cab that were amazing and would hold up to about any practice conditions needed. My concern with adding another 115 to your setup without adding headroom is that it is just going to pull down on the power that you have (the 410 will be quieter and you arent going to get much drive from the 115). If you can get closer to 300 watts, that 410 will give you all of the low end that you need.

 

[Maulraizor]

add a powered sub that will run off of the xlr out

I had this thought too. I wouldn't add another speaker without adding power (so a powered sub could work). I'm not familiar with the details of the bassman, but a 410 cab should be plenty loud if it is provided adaquate power imo

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I don't care if the guitarists have 25W amps, them turning down is really what you want rather than getting into a volume battle to try to match their volume.

 

[perfektspace6]

I don't care if the guitarists have 25W amps, them turning down is really what you want rather than getting into a volume battle to try to match their volume.

We need only turn to classic deterrence theory. The OP needs so much reserve wattage that the guitar players will understand that even "going to 11" will result in defeat. For every incremental increase by the guitarists, the OP must respond with resolve in the form earth shaking lows, cutting mids, and a sparkling high end at overwhelming volume. When they realize that a volume war is fruitless they will ask you to turn down. Don't do it! Continue to display your capabilities until a time of your choosing when you can deescalate tensions with a reduction to your desired end state.

(yeah, I agree Rich).

 

[pbassnut]

Hi All,

Currently playing a fender bassman (master volume) through an ampeg 410 cabinet. All in all, I like the sound, it's fighting against two fuzzy guitars and a pretty heavy hitting drummer. Sometimes though, the low end does get a little lost in our rehearsal room and am wondering if that's something I can remedy with the addition of 15 inch speaker. I've had a look through here and couldn't find a similar thread, apologies admin if one already exists.

Anybody here ever done this before, for what reason and what were the results?

Many thanks in advance.

I'll probably sound like an old fuddy-duddy here (which, of course, I am) ... but there's absolutely no reason to rehearse so loud. It's actually counterproductive, IMHO. Everyone should be able to hear each other well and be able to assess how well their parts are meshing with everybody else's. Then there's the issue of hearing loss. A good bass buddy of mine who is an excellent player and has a boatload of experience signed on to sub a gig for a band and participated in one rehearsal where the guitar player played stupid loud and my friend got Tinnitus and hasn't been the same since. He'd played thousands of gigs and it only took one irresponsible knucklehead to bring him down. A cautionary tale to be sure.

 

[Maulraizor]

I don't care if the guitarists have 25W amps, them turning down is really what you want rather than getting into a volume battle to try to match their volume.

From my experience, starting with very small amps, I was not able to compete with drums. While the guitars (even through a 25 watt amp) could be heard at a balanced volume with the drums. I agree that you need balanced volume. That said, I found myself cutting the lows on larger bass combos in order to increase the volume without distorting my speaker or triggering the limit light. My current rig allows me to balance the volume with my band without cutting my lows. And I have room to spare

 

[Maulraizor]

From my experience, starting with very small amps, I was not able to compete with drums. While the guitars (even through a 25 watt amp) could be heard at a balanced volume with the drums. I agree that you need balanced volume. That said, I found myself cutting the lows on larger bass combos in order to increase the volume without distorting my speaker or triggering the limit light. My current rig allows me to balance the volume with my band without cutting my lows. And I have room to spare

Turning down drums is much harder than turning down guitars. I practice with a loud drummer and guitarists. I do use ear plugs. My opinion for the OG is that the 410 cab should be loud enough to get a balanced volume with a loud drummer if you give it enough power. My recommendation would be to focus on the amp, not the cab.

 

[ctmullins]

Turning down drums is much harder than turning down guitars. I practice with a loud drummer and guitarists. I do use ear plugs. My opinion for the OG is that the 410 cab should be loud enough to get a balanced volume with a loud drummer if you give it enough power. My recommendation would be to focus on the amp, not the cab.

Modern electronic drum kits are fantastic for this (and other) reason(s).

 

[macmanlou]

If the OP looks for nothing but a 'lil bit more of volume he can easily stay with his existing cab and add a HPF that is set ~55Hz

Agreed. An HPF would be a good investment, and might well be all the OP needs with his existing rig.

And if it isn't enough and he decides to get another cab, an HPF would still give the low end more clarity with both cabs.

 

[Ric5]

add a 1x18

 

[coy garcia]

I really prefer the sound of a 15 with tube amps....then I would consider adding 10's if I wanted a little more.

 

[Wasnex]

The OP looks for more of low end but instead he gets suggestions not to do it cause it might cause some issues within the bandmix if he would have more of it.

I don't think we should assume we know exactly what "more low end" means. You seem to assume it means extending the usable frequency response lower, which is not necessarily the correct. IMHO the frequency ranges between about 70-120hz is where most of our perception of fat lows comes from. In my experience, applying a suitable HPF can tighten up the lows and also increase headroom so a rig sounds louder and more focused down low.

Most people here have never experienced a bass rig with relatively flat response down into the 30hz range. Many probably have not even experience flat response to 40hz.

fEARfull cabs seems to have a reputation for powerful, smooth, and extended low end. Looks like they are all down by about 7-8dB by 40hz.

Also I believe these cabs are relatively inefficient, so you need relatively big power to get them loud. Probably not a good choice if the OP is running a vintage Bassman.

 

[Wasnex]

If I was really nitpicking enough I could suggest to go with sealed cabs for the Bassman amplifier, and this way may confuse the OP even more than he might already be.
Or at least suggest to go with ported cabs that are at least critical damped.

Before I would buy a 610HLF for a Bassman amplifier I'd try it in a store if the 610HLF does accomplish well to a Bassman.
For ampeg tube amps a cab such as the 610HLF may be by far not as problematic as it COULD happen with a Bassman.

With seald cabs those possible "issues" in regards of cab "damping" that can happen with tube amps (such as a Bassman) are almost always obsolete.

I agree that trying before buying is a good idea. Also I know for a fact that amp/cab pairings are a bit more hit and miss when using a vented cab and a tube amp. My only problem is people tend to over generalize on this last fact, and because of this they may miss a really great amp/cab pairing.

Seriously a tube amp and vented cab may be your best choice or it may be awful. My big old EV TL405s sound fabulous with most of my tube amps, but the low end is a bit peaky/uneven with my Aguilar DB359. My Genz Benz 1288Ts are very even with all of my tubes amps. So the 1288Ts are probably a safer pairing, but I think the TL405s actually sound better with some of my tube amps.

I also own a Greenboy Dually loaded with Faital 15PR400s. This cab is really too vintage sounding for my taste. I think it sounds best with my big solid state or hybrid amps. It's a bit too loose and woolly in the low mids with most of my tubes amps. But it works well with my Reeves 400. The weird thing about the Dually is it seems to have fairly extended lows that come out clear. A bit of an enigma.

 

[Wasnex]

I'll probably sound like an old fuddy-duddy here (which, of course, I am) ... but there's absolutely no reason to rehearse so loud. It's actually counterproductive, IMHO. Everyone should be able to hear each other well and be able to assess how well their parts are meshing with everybody else's. Then there's the issue of hearing loss. A good bass buddy of mine who is an excellent player and has a boatload of experience signed on to sub a gig for a band and participated in one rehearsal where the guitar player played stupid loud and my friend got Tinnitus and hasn't been the same since. He'd played thousands of gigs and it only took one irresponsible knucklehead to bring him down. A cautionary tale to be sure.

Every musician should have a good set of protective ear plugs. I used ER15 for most gigs. The SPL does not have to be painful to cause hearing loss.

Here is an SPL VS Exposure Time chart with two standards:

Ref:
Permissible Exposure Time for Noise SPL

Comments from the webpage:

NIOSH represents the use of an 8-hour exposure of noise at 85 dBA and a 3 dBA doubling rate, to determine the noise dose.

OSHA represents the use of an 8-hour exposure of noise at 90 dBA and a 5 dBA doubling rate, which does not protect persons from hearing loss over their whole working lifetime.​

 

[Maulraizor]

After this thread, I do believe that I need to look more into hpf. Those are getting massive praise and Im embarrassed now to say that I have no experience with them.

 

[Passinwind]

fEARfull cabs seems to have a reputation for powerful, smooth, and extended low end. Looks like they are all down by about 7-8dB by 40hz.

That's the stock tuning, IME many users actually prefer the extended port shelf option that tunes the box a little lower and tightens the low end up a little.

 

[Wasnex]

Turning down drums is much harder than turning down guitars.

This is why so many TB members simply suggest "fire the drummer."

In truth it's probably not as hard as you think. But many drummers refuse to believe that you can actually play drums without bashing. Their are also plenty of non-drummer who insist drums do not sound good if you don't hit them hard.

A lot can be done by selecting the right equipment and learning to play with a lighter touch. Will it sound and feel like a basher, no. But it is possible to get a good sound.

 

[Maulraizor]

This is why so many TB members simply suggest "fire the drummer."

In truth it's probably not as hard as you think. But many drummers refuse to believe that you can actually play drums without bashing. Their are also plenty of non-drummer who insist drums do not sound good if you don't hit them hard.

A lot can be done by selecting the right equipment and learning to play with a lighter touch. Will it sound and feel like a basher, no. But it is possible to get a good sound.

Unfortunately, my drummer plays with heads very loosely tuned. It sounds terrible unless you Will Smith the hell out of them. And he gets pretty defensive when suggestions are thrown his way. In my case, I am fortunate enough to have over-powered gear, so its a non issue today. But boy I remember the days when it was a struggle to be heard.