To Mic or to DI? That is the question!

[Bassmann79]

Ok, first gig in the books as of last night with my new band. It went great!

So, obviously as I am rolling my rig on stage the sound guy asks if my amp had an XLR, of course it does BUT I told him I wanted him to mic my cabinet instead. Ok, so we did that and the show went on.

So now, this is obviously personal preference but when it comes to my tone I am extremely picky and particular about it. I am honestly ignorant of XLR/DI out to the mains..for those that choose to go the route of XLR/DI how does that affect your tone? I heard another bassist last night that went DI, bass was low in the mix and his "tone" wasn't bad but it's definitely not a sound I would want to project. It was kind of generic bass tone.

I have my head and cabinet for a reason, it gives me the tone I want but if I hand that off to front of house, then there goes "my" tone yes?

This is just something i'm trying to wrap my head around because for me until I could hear different, I will have them mic'ing my cabinet.

I am thinking perhaps you can keep a close tone by saying going amp head->DI Pedal->Front of house?

 

[Acoustic356]

Most of the time when you use the built on XLR, you are sending a flat or prevent eq signal.

Some sound men like this because they can tune your tone to the room. This gives you the freedom to get your sound on stage for "inspiration" and ensure that your tone sits well in the house mix.

I have been in venues where the sound on stage was vastly different than in the house. It also depends on whether you trust the sound man.

If your mix sounds great to you but doesn't sit well in the house, sometimes there's very little you can do to fix that.

The larger the venue, the more variables.

 

[SiSoldier]

I am sure most of us prefer a mic signal from our cabs to the FOH but there will always be soundguys who prefer a simple pre eq DI signal. I personally grew tired of trying to convince them and just gave up the idea of being mic'ed up.

 

[jimfist]

OH NOOOOO! NOT THIS QUESTION AGAIN!!!

just kidding...

This gets asked a lot on this forum. Do a forum or google search for "mic vs DI bass" and you'll see.

Ideally, a mic feed + a DI feed of some kind gets you the best of both worlds. Unfortunately, a lot of sound techs will just default to a DI off the bass...because...that's just what they do, without truly spending a few minutes consulting with the bassist to see if this is really a good solution.

Personally, I take the question out of the sound tech's hands by providing fully emulated speaker cabinet modeling as a DI feed (I prefer digital cabinet Impulse Response technology vs. analog emulation using filters). This makes me happy since I get the cab sound I want going to the PA, and makes the sound tech happy because of the DI solution (no mic).

There is another discussion, though, if you use a cab emulated DI to the PA system, and it has to do with where to pull this cabinet emulated DI from in your signal chain. For me, all of my amp and cabinet modeling and effects are provided by a multi-effect box, so this answer is simple. My main output serves all purposes. But if you're integrating cab emulation-to-FOH with a traditional amp rig and front end stomps, it can be a little trickier.

Thus the easy answer is mic + DI, but if you can't have a mic, then there are deeper decisions...possibly.

 

[mpdd]

for the noise metal band i refuse to use the di or mic, because i want the sound of my rig turned all the way up in the small club, museum, or outdoors, otherwise i kind of like the di, because it's pretty fool proof ime, not going to bother with trying to get some light od or whatever, because i like to be clear and punchy, basically the exact opposite of the sludge tone

 

[s0c9]

I am sure most of us prefer a mic signal from our cabs to the FOH but there will always be soundguys who prefer a simple pre eq DI signal. I personally grew tired of trying to convince them and just gave up the idea of being mic'ed up.

The FOH guy in me will ALWAYS take a DI over a mic from bass - when available!
I have more control over where/how the bass fits in the mix/room.

As mentioned in another post, the larger the room the more the need for FOH control.
Unless you are playing in a restroom, your tone means nothing once it is no longer stage-bound, unless your are standing in front of a wall of 8x10's - but that's a different problem.
DI can come from a variety of sources.. such between bass and cab, from amp (line out) or preamp box/pedal. I have no issues with a POST-EQ feed as long as you don't mess with it constantly.

What I want at FOH is a solid signal.

Most folks who prefer mics forget that the mic is generally pulling from ONE speaker and that "tone" will vary based on the mic being used, position/angle of the mic off the cone center and distance from that cone. Lots of variables. And it can easily change from gig to gig if a sound guy decides to mic a different speaker (perhaps because he ran out of short mic stands). Anyone can stick a mic on a stick in front of a bass (or guitar cab).. doing it right takes far more skill than connecting a DI.

Give me DI any day.. less variables to worry about,.
My $0.02

 

[seamonkey]

Get yourself a good DI signal that sound closest to how you want to sound and send that to FOH. You'll have a much better chance of sounding like what you expect in the FOH.

Put a mic on your cabinet like you want FOH to do and record it while listening in the room.
What you hear and what your record sounds different. Nobody puts their ear up next to a cone.
Keep recording and move the mic a little, then move it again, each time it will sound different.
If you think a mic accurately conveys what you're hearing from your amp all has to do with mic technique, and a FOH is not going to spend as much time as say a recording studio. They're just not.

 

[Geri O]

Good sound guys will ask for both. They try to get a blend of a good clean signal and the sound you are going for from your bass amp. After listening to your sound onstage as you play, of course. Of course, time constraints might make this process difficult or impractical. That's why my festival input list always has a bass mic and a bass DI. I always start with the DI tone, but I would make a blend of the two as best I thought, unless I was given direction by the player or other spokesperson with the band.

A bassist that for whatever reason refuses one way or the other of sending the bass signal to the PA is as close-minded and shallow as the sound guy that refuses to use one way or the other for whatever reason.

And for someone to criticize my thoughts on that without hearing my bass tone in a mixing situation is as silly as me ASSuming that what's coming out of your bass cabinet is unusable without first listening to it.

 

[Geri O]

Ok, first gig in the books as of last night with my new band. It went great!

So, obviously as I am rolling my rig on stage the sound guy asks if my amp had an XLR, of course it does BUT I told him I wanted him to mic my cabinet instead. Ok, so we did that and the show went on.

So now, this is obviously personal preference but when it comes to my tone I am extremely picky and particular about it.

Okay, has there EVER been anyone you or I ever heard of that wasn't picky with their tone?? Geez...

I am honestly ignorant of XLR/DI out to the mains..for those that choose to go the route of XLR/DI how does that affect your tone? I heard another bassist last night that went DI, bass was low in the mix and his "tone" wasn't bad but it's definitely not a sound I would want to project. It was kind of generic bass tone.

You might have been hearing the tone he likes. Have you asked him if what you heard was his preferred tone? Your idea of a "preferred tone" might not match up with his idea of said tone. We are all individuals, you know...

I have my head and cabinet for a reason

it gives me the tone I want but if I hand that off to front of house, then there goes "my" tone yes?

(Hand it off from where?) Not necessarily. "Your tone" might need some work in order to be heard and sit in the mix. What's worse, not having "your tone", or you not fitting in well with the overall mix (you aren't the only one coming out of the PA, you know)...

This is just something i'm trying to wrap my head around because for me until I could hear different, I will have them mic'ing my cabinet.

I hope you have a wireless that you can go out front and listen to the mix, otherwise just how will you hear differentLY?

I am thinking perhaps you can keep a close tone by saying going amp head->DI Pedal->Front of house?

Actually, this quite makes sense, but if it's alright with you, I'd like to also mic your cabinet as well....

 

[EastCoastThump]

Mic makes sense if you want power tubes and particular cab color in your FOH tone. Looks like you're using an SVT on top of a sealed 610, so I could see wanting to send the FOH a cab mic (assuming you can get your tone at low enough stage levels for FOH support to enter into the equation).

 

[EastCoastThump]

Most folks who prefer mics forget that the mic is generally pulling from ONE speaker and that "tone" will vary based on the mic being used, position/angle of the mic off the cone center and distance from that cone. Lots of variables. And it can easily change from gig to gig if a sound guy decides to mic a different speaker (perhaps because he ran out of short mic stands).

A lot of truth here. If a cab mic is important to you, think about bringing your own mic on a mounted [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] to get more consistent cab sound from gig to gig. Still a lot of variables, but that'll help.

 

[landwomble]

I'm happy with DI. ON an active bass I can adjust, carefully, if I need it and can swap to post EQ DI if using my head. It's very bad form to surprise the sound engineer with massive changes though so I would be very respectful of them unless they were really way off. Cranking the bass up to 11 for ego purposes is antisocial though!

 

[XLunacy]

I aim at having "my" tone done before it even hits the amp head and send it to the FOH via DI. That way I can tweak the amp/cab to the room post DI if need be and maintain a consistant tone night after night.
The coloration a cab would give me would most likely get lost in the mix anyways; 95% of the people wouldn't hear the difference. I'm happy with a cab sim for now.

 

[Bassmann79]

I looked into this more and know what to do when the time comes I am forced to DI to FOH

My line will run

Bass->Tuner->SansAmp->HSVT-CL->HSVT-CL XLR->FOH

That would put it out there...so when that time comes that's how I will roll. thanks to those that brought valid input into a rather redundant question. I appreciate it.

 

[Bredian]

I use both my cabinet and the DI out the back, but it goes post eq as well as through my signal chain. Pre or post eq doesn't really matter to me as I am trying to get as flat a tone out the front of my rig as possible, building a PA style box, but currently using genz-benz neo 210 with a horn. Pretty damn happy with it.

BUT!!! whether I'm direct into the board or not, we are still working through presets on our newer Line 6 system to get rid of the muffled 60s FOH sound.... I'm asking for "keyboard" preset next. Related is our female singer had the same issue until they changed the preset to "guy". I'm wanting to get the stage volumes down.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

When using a very colored cabinet or something that has a very specific voice, such as an 810E or NV610, then it's a crime not to mic the cabinet, IMHO. When using a much more transparent cab, I can dig a DI. If it's a solid-state amp, post pre is cool. If it's a tube amp, then post power section with a DI in parallel works well.

My one and main rule when micing a cabinet is that if it's a two-way cabinet and the woofers aren't full range, either 1) a little bit of the tweeter needs to make it into the mic, or 2) the mic signal needs to be supplemented with a DI to cover highs (and also gives you the option of adding lows that the cab may lack).

Honestly, the only time I've gotten even a little bit of static over using a mic has been from bush league sound "engineers." You know the guys: their system is a hodge podge of worn out Peavey and Carvin mains from the early 1980s, their monitors buzz all night, and the bass would sound like mushy poop soup regardless if the signal were from a mic or a direct line. With that said, I did invest in a PR40 for times I want my cabinet miced. Many sound engineers don't carry dedicated dynamic mics for bass. Kick mics are usually too scooped, and I personally hate 57s on a bass cabinet.

 

[Downunderwonder]

When using a very colored cabinet or something that has a very specific voice, such as an 810E or NV610, then it's a crime not to mic the cabinet, IMHO. When using a much more transparent cab, I can dig a DI. If it's a solid-state amp, post pre is cool. If it's a tube amp, then post power section with a DI in parallel works well.

My one and main rule when micing a cabinet is that if it's a two-way cabinet and the woofers aren't full range, either 1) a little bit of the tweeter needs to make it into the mic, or 2) the mic signal needs to be supplemented with a DI to cover highs (and also gives you the option of adding lows that the cab may lack).

Honestly, the only time I've gotten even a little bit of static over using a mic has been from bush league sound "engineers." You know the guys: their system is a hodge podge of worn out Peavey and Carvin mains from the early 1980s, their monitors buzz all night, and the bass would sound like mushy poop soup regardless if the signal were from a mic or a direct line. With that said, I did invest in a PR40 for times I want my cabinet miced. Many sound engineers don't carry dedicated dynamic mics for bass. Kick mics are usually too scooped, and I personally hate 57s on a bass cabinet.

You're lucky. I get pushback from the guys with the monster flash system just the same.

 

[Big_Daws]

i can't believe this topic is up again...uuggghhh... *face palms*

that aside, on the stages ive worked on, i prepare everything from tech riders, if a band hasn't given me a tech rider or its changed in a 5/$5 situation, you get what you get, and deal...in a festival situation, this is a little different, typically you have time to make things work.....

we are all picky about tone, but what makes you better is learning to deal with the situation at hand and run with it...this should be more of what you prefer than gospel...be all end all if you like...and this also helps to get return gigs...its all about working together than starting up fights...

 

[FergusonRJ]

Bugger all to do with how your rig sounds.

SPILL.

Do you have acoustic screens? Is your amp usually situated close to the drummer?

You can mic onstage, and DI, as long as your mic feed isn't picking up the bass drum. Or the lowest end of the guitars. Or keyboard. Or anything from the singer. Or the audience. ...

If you're going to mic onstage, whether or not you go DI as well, you need good mics, and enough stage space. Small venues, especially (for example, through years of experience in the UK) pub gigs, don't allow you to mic an amp. Simply put, there is too much spill. Most of the gigs I've heard/played in local venues: roughly 2' separation between guitar cab, drums, and bass cab, in simple arrangements. Put a mic on your bass amp *that* close to the drums, and the mic - regardless of how good it is, how you position it - will suffer from the sound waves coming from the drums. Specifically - if you're playing lower notes, you'll get lost in-between you and the kickdrum. DI allows a sound engineer to separate the frequencies, and then blend them accordingly. No-one ever sounded good with %70 low end (<160hz, ish... depending on the room, and lots of other factors... unless you're drunk, coked up and in a bad House Music club at 4am) ...it's a practical thing. Big stage? Yep, go for it. Anything less than a spacious stage... say, 4-5' separation between you and the drummer - don't use a mic. Recording? medium sized venue? Yes. Apart from that, it's what people hear out front that ultimately matters. If there are phase cancellation issues because the mic on your amp is picking up direct or residual frequencies from the 'kit and/or other instruments, you're screwed. ...and it'll take 1 in 30 people, roughly, I think... in my experience... to actually be honest and say "Mate, you didn't sound... erm... great"... because a lot of people listening have a) no idea b) don't care c) no desire to criticise someone in a subject they're not sure about.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

I find that bleed can be greatly reduced by relying on front-address dynamics with a tight dispersion.