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I used to lug around a 600 watt 2x10 Carvin combo with a 1x15 extension with the philosophy "better to have more and not need it." Then I downsized to a Bassman 100 combo with the philosophy "I'll just point this at the drummer and send to FOH." The latter was the correct philosophy.
Regarding one of the OP's concerns (namely, reproducing low B), IMO an appropriately set HPF would go a long way towards eliminating any "softening out" or "loss of authority" that one might attribute to a smaller setup. If not a perfect solution, it would at least make virtually any downsized cab situation more workable.
What all in the PF line did you play? The PF112hlf and 210he are probably not what you'd be looking for when your current cab is the 410hlf, but the PF115he might be. I thought it went extremely low in the lows, especially for a small cab. They also have a slightly bigger 115 called the PF115lf, which doesn't have a tweeter and is kind of dark, but goes even lower. That said, no disrespect to Hartke intended...it's a great company run by a great dude.
I tried the first 2 you mentioned. They weren't bad by any means, but the Hydrives were more of what I was looking for. Funny you mention the PF115LF - I thought about trying one of those for when we do our (very rare) acoustic style gigs when I'm playing upright or hollow body. Might be overkill but would sound awesome
Hi There,
Downsized from an 8x10 and a 2x15 to 2 Hartke Hydrives. Loving it, in fact liked it so much I ended up with another 2! So have two HX112's and 2 HD112's for the ultimate modular rig.
The cabs are really good IMHO. Very Capable and seem to handle low tunings very well. Add a HPF for really low stuff and bob's your uncle. Pic below shows all 4 running off a TC BH550 have since moved onto a Ashdown ABM600 and they really sing!
Downsized from an 8x10 and a 2x15 to 2 Hartke Hydrives. Loving it, in fact liked it so much I ended up with another 2! So have two HX112's and 2 HD112's for the ultimate modular rig.
The cabs are really good IMHO. Very Capable and seem to handle low tunings very well. Add a HPF for really low stuff and bob's your uncle. Pic below shows all 4 running off a TC BH550 have since moved onto a Ashdown ABM600 and they really sing!
Attachments
I see you have four 8 ohm Hartke cabs. The Ashdown is rated at a min 4 ohm output, so running the Ashdown into any lower resistance speaker system can seriously damage the amp.
I have to assume you are running the four 12" Cabs in a series / parallel arrangement. If they are just connected to the Amp in a parallel configuration, that 2 ohm load is quite dangerous to the amp.
Hi Eddie,
Good spot! When I run all 4 I run them in 4ohm mode. I then connect each pair in parallel giving me a 2ohm load for a pair. I then have a custom little "serialiser" box that a tech knocked up for me that allows me to connect the loads (pairs) in serial so the whole rig runs at 4ohms.
Actually the main reason I went for the 112 Hydrives is the switchable loads. It allows for a cool number of cab options.
I've been toying with selling my G-K MB-410-II and 410MBP and replacing them with a Fender Rumble Stage 800 for all the effects and connectivity that it provides. I've for the most part retired from live gigging so the Stage 800 would do fine. Any locals interested in my GK PM me.
TD
TD
I've been a 2x15 fan since the 70s, but now a devotee of my Hartke HD112 cabs. Started with one, added a second, will get a third for this summer season. Really has a deep 'phat' quality that belies its compact size and manageable weight ...
In the last 15 years I down sized from Mesa Boogie Road Ready 210 and 115 cabs with EV's (over 90lbs a cab), to an Epifani UL410-S1 (48lbs?); then to Berg AE210 and AE112 (30-40lbs a cab); then to 2 Barefaced Super Compacts (21lbs a cab).
IMO I sounded good with the Mesa cabs, but with every change I think my tone improved and the cabs got a lot lighter. I'm really happy now with the BF cabs.
During this journey, my amps went up from 450 watts to 800 watts. Technology for bass has improve beyond belief in the last 15 years.
IMO I sounded good with the Mesa cabs, but with every change I think my tone improved and the cabs got a lot lighter. I'm really happy now with the BF cabs.
During this journey, my amps went up from 450 watts to 800 watts. Technology for bass has improve beyond belief in the last 15 years.
I won't make any friends with this, but I think most of this downsizing and low weight craze is just due to laziness. Yes, in 90% of applications when you downsize you are probably giving up either tone or volume, unless you're going from a cheap and not great old and heavy rig (ie Peavey, etc...) to a much better and more expensive modern rig (Barefaced or something). I don't get the "let me see how little I can get by with" philosophy at all. If you view music as a commodity like wonder bread I guess it make sense. "How much margin can we squeeze out of this by skimping everywhere we can?" But I view music as art and entertainment, and so I always want to put as much into it as practical. To the extent that we've carried a full PA, mostly for vocals and a bit of kick, to a 2nd floor venue that already had a PA, just because ours was way better. We didn't get paid more because of that, but we sure as hell sounded a lot better and could actually be proud of the production aspects of the show.
So my outlook is usually, "How much can I reasonably get away with bringing?" As a result, I never lack for volume or tone, and any problems with the gig have nothing to do with my rig (unless something were to break). BUT, since I ALWAYS bring more than enough rig, my gear is rarely getting pushed much, if at all.
So my "big rig" is 2 "little big" (or big little) cabs, and a traditional SS head (with tube pre). Yes, it weighs a total of about 160 pounds. So I carry in the head like a box of books, and put the cabs on a little mini dolly I have. So yeah, for 5 minutes before and after the gig it's less than ideal. The rest of the time all I'm thinking about is how awesome it sounds.
Personally, I wouldn't really feel comfortable with anything less than about 2 12s for an average gig. Technically what I have is like a 2x12/4x8, so each cab is somewhere between a 1x12 and a 4x10 in terms of output (and rated at 600w each). These particular cabs are maybe a little clumsy to carry by yourself (kind of a big cube shape), but with 2 people they are super easy. Again, it's only an issue for a few minutes before and after the gig anyway. And I can lose a bunch of pounds overall by using my ShuttleMax head
I will say, if I had another STL 210T to go with the one I have now (37 lbs and rated about 10w per pound), I could probably get away with that for a lot of gigs. That would be more portable, but definitely wouldn't have the power handling and probably not quite the authority and fullness of the pair of uber quads.
I can see the appeal of going with lighter cabs to get the same output, but I don't really get giving up a good chunk of your volume and tone (with bas you need volume to get tone, them's the breaks) just to save a bit of weight on load in/load out.
Maybe really crappy ones. That's never been my experience with any of the ones I've owned or used extensively (about a half a dozen or so models from a few different manufacturers, and mostly "consumer" grade). Cabs that try to get too much sound out of too small a cab are the boomy ones, because they purposely make the cab too small for the driver to get that obnoxious and amusical low mid bump that happens when you do that.
So my outlook is usually, "How much can I reasonably get away with bringing?" As a result, I never lack for volume or tone, and any problems with the gig have nothing to do with my rig (unless something were to break). BUT, since I ALWAYS bring more than enough rig, my gear is rarely getting pushed much, if at all.
So my "big rig" is 2 "little big" (or big little) cabs, and a traditional SS head (with tube pre). Yes, it weighs a total of about 160 pounds. So I carry in the head like a box of books, and put the cabs on a little mini dolly I have. So yeah, for 5 minutes before and after the gig it's less than ideal. The rest of the time all I'm thinking about is how awesome it sounds.
Personally, I wouldn't really feel comfortable with anything less than about 2 12s for an average gig. Technically what I have is like a 2x12/4x8, so each cab is somewhere between a 1x12 and a 4x10 in terms of output (and rated at 600w each). These particular cabs are maybe a little clumsy to carry by yourself (kind of a big cube shape), but with 2 people they are super easy. Again, it's only an issue for a few minutes before and after the gig anyway. And I can lose a bunch of pounds overall by using my ShuttleMax head
I will say, if I had another STL 210T to go with the one I have now (37 lbs and rated about 10w per pound), I could probably get away with that for a lot of gigs. That would be more portable, but definitely wouldn't have the power handling and probably not quite the authority and fullness of the pair of uber quads.
I can see the appeal of going with lighter cabs to get the same output, but I don't really get giving up a good chunk of your volume and tone (with bas you need volume to get tone, them's the breaks) just to save a bit of weight on load in/load out.
Maybe really crappy ones. That's never been my experience with any of the ones I've owned or used extensively (about a half a dozen or so models from a few different manufacturers, and mostly "consumer" grade). Cabs that try to get too much sound out of too small a cab are the boomy ones, because they purposely make the cab too small for the driver to get that obnoxious and amusical low mid bump that happens when you do that.
You are right, I just can't deal with hauling all that around anymore. My back can't take it.
LOL
And this is a six 15 cab from Silvertone (really a Danelectro) that I did cart around in '69 and '70.
Ridiculous. But the PA had two Altec Voice of the Theater cabs too.
Ridiculous. But the PA had two Altec Voice of the Theater cabs too.
went from 8x10 to two 4x10's to two 1x15's, now I mostly use a single 15, but I have the other matching single 15 if I need more and want to run at 4 ohm. Modular and lighter is the way to go when you get older IMO.
I still keep my big 1x18" Kustom amp with hopes of using it someday with a little assistance getting it to and from a gig, would have to be a bigger stage for that
I still keep my big 1x18" Kustom amp with hopes of using it someday with a little assistance getting it to and from a gig, would have to be a bigger stage for that
I still haul out the gk neo 4x10(it lives outside in the garage) for larger outdoor shows. The mesa can go down to 2 ohms,so I sometimes run the mesa 2x10 and mb 12 togeather.
I respect your dedication to your tone and your craft. Certainly not everyone is willing to do what you do. However, I do question whether you've had the opportunity to try one of the new wonder-cabs. I had similar thoughts as you do until I played a festival with a fEARless 112. Yes, it was tiny compared to my beloved 610 stack, but more importantly it blew mine away with the deep end extension and the massive SPL it produced. It changed my outlook completely. My giant rig was now inferior.
Well there are other reasons to downsize besides "laziness", mine being transportation, my main vehicle is a Mazda Miata. So I rent with two Berg cabs, a 112 and a 210, rarely do I need both. And I personally do not like to play at too loud a volume, not good for your ears, your head, your musicianship or the audience. When we play out I always ask the bar tenders to let me know if we are too loud. So imho there is absolutely no reason to lug around some huge rig and I am just not going to play with players that want to be that loud.
