To those who have downsized their rig

[Verb the Noun]

My ultimate "big rig" back in the day was a Trace Elliot 300w tube head on top of 2 4x12 cabs. TE head was about 90lbs, each cab about 150lbs. The tone was to die for. Other bass players in our rehearsal studio used to wait till we were done and ask to play that rig constantly (this was back when bass rigs pretty much only used 10s or 15s, everyone's mind was blown at the sound those 12s were delivering). Miss the tone, moving it not so much.

My current "down sized" rig is a GK 1001rb into 2 GK 2x12 neo cabs. Head maybe 25ish lbs in a SKS soft rack gig bag, each cab 40lbs.

Just added a lil 100w 1x12 fender rumble combo for amplified acoustic sets / jam sessions / etc. 22 lbs! Hell yeah!!! I am actually kinda digging the tone on this little combo more than my GK head and strongly considering going with a rumble 500 or 800 head for my "big" rig.

-If for a reason other than portability, why did you do it?

Nope... portability alone. I am in damn good shape for 49, but the L4-L5 disk is a bit of an issue.

-Were you dissapointed in any way?

Not completely satisfied with the GK 1001rb tone, but that has nothing to do with headroom. To date, I have only bothered to bring my "full stack" to three shows and it was gross over kill for all but one outdoor party with no PA support. 2x12's have been more than sufficient 99% of the time.

-Do you have any live experience with the cabs I have listed above and, if so, how did you like them?

Sry no.

-How does a pair of 1x12s handle the low B? (Not worried about this for shows with PA support)

4 string pleb here, but my 2x12 cabs have zero issues with flat+drop D tuning if that helps.

 

[JOME77]

Ya know... A lot of folks here are proud of owning way too many guitars and basses (I'm reformed to a reasonable number now, but I've been there), so I just don't understand the seeming obsession on TB with having apparently ONE "right sized" amp. I own six different bass amps right now, and one of them is "just right" for whatever I may encounter, including leaving one in a practice space, loaning one out to a close friend, etc. ...but I'd buy another if it was something really cool that I really wanted. What's up with this "one perfect amp for all occasions" thing ??

+1
I don't own 6 amps but I do own 3.
Kind of like the 3 Bears.
I have an Ibanez Promethean 110 combo. Great for small gigs like coffee houses.
An Aguilar AG700 and SL112 for medium gigs.
And a Genz-Benz GBE750 and Bergantino HT322 for large gigs.

I rarely need more than the Aggie rig and it's what I play through most of time. But it's nice be able to just grab the small combo for the small gig and drag out the GB and Berg rig for the large gig. And they all sound great!

Variety is the spice of life!

 

[Das Jugghead]

I won't make any friends with this, but I think most of this downsizing and low weight craze is just due to laziness. Yes, in 90% of applications when you downsize you are probably giving up either tone or volume, unless you're going from a cheap and not great old and heavy rig (ie Peavey, etc...) to a much better and more expensive modern rig (Barefaced or something). I don't get the "let me see how little I can get by with" philosophy at all. If you view music as a commodity like wonder bread I guess it make sense. "How much margin can we squeeze out of this by skimping everywhere we can?" But I view music as art and entertainment, and so I always want to put as much into it as practical. To the extent that we've carried a full PA, mostly for vocals and a bit of kick, to a 2nd floor venue that already had a PA, just because ours was way better. We didn't get paid more because of that, but we sure as hell sounded a lot better and could actually be proud of the production aspects of the show.

I respect your opinion and understand you are not addressing every single person who has downsized. I will not deny that easier/faster load outs are a welcome benefit of having downsized from two Hartke VX410 cabinets - not to mention taking up less space in my vehicle. I own and operate a landscaping company, a tree service, and a handyman service, and play in three bands. I am not any better than anyone else but I am the last person anyone would label as lazy. My decision to downsize had more to do with quality of sound and practicality than anything else.

I gave up nothing in downsizing but honesty dictates acknowledging I upgraded substantially in going with Mesa/Boogie Subway 112's. I have had nothing but compliments from audience members, bands we share the bill with, and sound people. There hasn't been a show where I haven't spent time answering questions about my rig and 90% of the time it centers around my cabinets.

In terms of volume at half power I have had the singer tell me at the end of the first song "THE PHOQUE IS WRONG WITH YOU - TURN THAT $H!T DOWN". I am pretty sure I could cause involuntary bowel movements in the audience were I to be that twisted. I certainly think there is a point where the downsizing can compromise the quality of the sound and tone if one doesn't do their homework in terms of what people have found to work - and even then what works for one may not necessarily work for another. I think I got really lucky. I was skeptical of the ability of two 112 speakers to hold their own against two 410 cabinets. Stacked vertically my Mesa/Boogie Subway 112's are louder, cleaner, project like a laser beam, and sound so much better on half the power. I love feeling my lungs move in my chest. Even at lower volumes I can still be heard over a very loud guitarist because of the clarity. With experience I have found precision beats excessive volume every time.

I guess the point of the above long-winded explanation is that downsizing, for me, would have been a disappointing experiment absent excellent quality cabinets. This is NOT to say anyone wanting to down size has to use Mesa/Boogie Subways - just to consider that in doing so one may want to give careful eye to the type of cabinets others have found to work in downsizing.

 

[Stumbo]

I won't make any friends with this, but I think most of this downsizing and low weight craze is just due to laziness...

No way I'm going back to this!

Regardless of rig size, the proof is in the mix. Like Duke said, "if it sounds good, it is good".

Don't get me wrong, I was raised on big iron and bigger cabs. Still got a bunch of cool JBL Sunn cabs that sound great. But I'm with @johnk_10 and his <50lb 2x15 Starliner cab. I'm no Luddite.

 

[Pizza1988]

It's official. I did the thing.

Thank you all so much for your input! TB really is invaluable!

 

[Kro]

It's official. I did the thing.
View attachment 3708618
Thank you all so much for your input! TB really is invaluable!

Very curious to hear your thoughts after putting them through a few gigs!

 

[Pizza1988]

Very curious to hear your thoughts after putting them through a few gigs!

I will definitely share my thoughts!

 

[steveksux]

I started out with a 2-15 cab, pretty heavy and bulky. Over the years switched to a 15 and a 2x10, 18 and a 210 bi-amped, 410s, to a pair of vertically stacked 2-10s (EA VL-210s) that have been a workhorse for many years. Great low b, blows away anything I had used before.

Big fan of 2 cabs vs 1 large cab, and more power/cab than you need. If you're pushing stuff to the limit you blow speakers/amps. Load in is much easier split into 2 cabs, and you have the option of only bringing one when the gig demands less. They're about 70lb each, so time to experiment again. I've been doing inears pretty exclusively for a few years, but after bringing the EAs to a gig where people were expected to sit in, band likes having bass on stage, not just in the monitors.

Going to try a powered sub+powered top, 42 and 29lb respectively. Rated 1200W each, 2400 total (exaggerated peak watts, more likely 1200 total rms). Sounds great at practice, will see how it holds up in live situation. If you go to PA support when you need more than an amp delivers, no reason a PA setup can't work for a bass amp. I expect similar performance with significantly less weight. The top can used as a monitor, angled on the one side, so it's pointing to my ears.

Ringing in my ears started to linger the next day after a gig around 10 years ago, which got me on the path to inears. I used to be a fan of having a big enough rig to handle nearly anything. Now not so much, rather protect my hearing, if the band is so loud, the room so big, it needs to be PA support, you can fill a huge room from the stage, but not without damaging your hearing. PA support allows for much quieter stage volume if others cooperate. Much easier to play together at reasonable volumes, feedback in the monitors becomes a non issue, it's way better all the way around.

Just turned 60, so I'm more interested in quality than quantity gigs at this point, playing live since 16, couple thousand gigs or so, loved having the volume to feel it, but if you're into that, need to get earplugs before you do permanent damage to your hearing while enjoying the power.

Randy

 

[Chuck King]

After years of playing what many hear would probably consider a medium-sized rig (Thunderfunk 550B and Bag End Q10X usually, or an Eden D410T), I went through a downsizing last fall. I was not unhappy with how my rig performed, and while those cabinets are moderately hefty moving them wasn't really a problem, but for a long time I had noticed that for what my band does (pop/rock in small to medium sized venues) I was never getting anywhere near what that rig could actually do, and I wondered whether I could put something together that would be easier to move.

The project got going when I read a review of the Quilter Interbass---their relatively new little amp that looks like a pedal. I was sufficiently intrigued by the review to take a chance on it. It's the ultimate in portability, but it puts out 44 watts into a 4 ohm load, which doesn't sound like much, but when I hooked it up to my regular cab, I was amazed at how loud it could get---loud enough for gigging, for most of what we do. I tried it at a couple gigs (with a "real" head in the car, just in case) and it worked great.

So having cut the bulk and weight of my amp down drastically, I started thinking about whether I could do something similar with my speaker cabinet. First, I switched from the Bag End Q10X (which one of my bandmates opined was the single heaviest piece of gear our band used) to a Bag End D10 I had---only two versus four speakers, but 4 ohms versus eight, so it would pull more power out of the amp. That worked, and knocked about 40 pounds off my cabinet weight.

My plan wasn't, I'm going to downsize due to weight/size/etc. and tone be damned---I just wondered whether a smaller/lighter rig could still do a good job. And in my opinion, for what I do, I think it can. The trade-off has been giving up additional power that I almost never used. If you have a big amp and never turn it up, do you really need a big amp? Like, I suspect, many of us, I like to feel what I'm playing, but when I set the volume at that level I always get pushback from sound engineers and bandmates, and I recognize that my job is to fit comfortably within the context of everything else that's going on on stage. It's not like I can't hear myself anyway.

That all got me thinking about whether I could go even further with the downsizing. I did a lot of reading and research about various cabinets, looking for the best intersection of size, sensitivity, and tone. One cabinet that stood out when I was doing my research was the EA Wizzy-112, which was highly efficient and significantly lighter than even my smaller Bag End cabinet. I am lucky to live in one of only two cities in non-coastal states that has an EA dealer, so I was able to side-by-side my Bag End with the Wizzy, and besides being smaller and lighter, it also sounded better (IMO). And the Bag End sounded pretty good to start with, I always thought and still think. So, I got the Wizzy last week, and it will be making its stage debut at our next gig later this month.

This all drove home to me how far bass cabinet engineering has come in recent years. My Bag End and Eden cabinets are probably in the ballpark of 20 years old (not entirely sure; I got them used) and the comparative tone and performance of many newer, smaller cabs is just astonishing. I suppose that sometimes there's something to be said for simply moving more air, but for what I do, I've never (until now) had to worry about wringing every bit of capacity out of my bass rig.

TL;DR: I would not have downsized solely to save weight/bulk, but, given that I was able to do so anyway without giving up tone or any performance that I was actually using, why ever not? I discovered that I didn't need a big heavy rig for most things I do, so I now have a very portable, but still good-sounding, rig, making my life a bit easier.

P.S. I've still got my old rig and I don't think I'll be selling it right away---I'd probably still need the extra oomph for outdoor gigs, which we occasionally play. But for probably 90% of gigs, I've now dropped close to 100 pounds from what I have to haul around, with (so far) no apparent downside.

 

[murphy]

Loved my Eden D410XLT cabs ....My best 410 rig ever
I did not like my Bergantino HT112 cabs
I loved my EA CXL12 cabs...but they kept blowing
Loved My Berg HT115 ...should have kept it...but was too heavy
Switched to Epifani UL 310s and 410s which I still love....47lbs and 57lbs
Decided tens are my favorite cabs

 

[shoot-r]

I won't make any friends with this, but I think most of this downsizing and low weight craze is just due to laziness. Yes, in 90% of applications when you downsize you are probably giving up either tone or volume, unless you're going from a cheap and not great old and heavy rig (ie Peavey, etc...) to a much better and more expensive modern rig (Barefaced or something). I don't get the "let me see how little I can get by with" philosophy at all. If you view music as a commodity like wonder bread I guess it make sense. "How much margin can we squeeze out of this by skimping everywhere we can?" But I view music as art and entertainment, and so I always want to put as much into it as practical. To the extent that we've carried a full PA, mostly for vocals and a bit of kick, to a 2nd floor venue that already had a PA, just because ours was way better. We didn't get paid more because of that, but we sure as hell sounded a lot better and could actually be proud of the production aspects of the show.

So my outlook is usually, "How much can I reasonably get away with bringing?" As a result, I never lack for volume or tone, and any problems with the gig have nothing to do with my rig (unless something were to break). BUT, since I ALWAYS bring more than enough rig, my gear is rarely getting pushed much, if at all.

So my "big rig" is 2 "little big" (or big little) cabs, and a traditional SS head (with tube pre). Yes, it weighs a total of about 160 pounds. So I carry in the head like a box of books, and put the cabs on a little mini dolly I have. So yeah, for 5 minutes before and after the gig it's less than ideal. The rest of the time all I'm thinking about is how awesome it sounds.

Personally, I wouldn't really feel comfortable with anything less than about 2 12s for an average gig. Technically what I have is like a 2x12/4x8, so each cab is somewhere between a 1x12 and a 4x10 in terms of output (and rated at 600w each). These particular cabs are maybe a little clumsy to carry by yourself (kind of a big cube shape), but with 2 people they are super easy. Again, it's only an issue for a few minutes before and after the gig anyway. And I can lose a bunch of pounds overall by using my ShuttleMax head

I will say, if I had another STL 210T to go with the one I have now (37 lbs and rated about 10w per pound), I could probably get away with that for a lot of gigs. That would be more portable, but definitely wouldn't have the power handling and probably not quite the authority and fullness of the pair of uber quads.

I can see the appeal of going with lighter cabs to get the same output, but I don't really get giving up a good chunk of your volume and tone (with bas you need volume to get tone, them's the breaks) just to save a bit of weight on load in/load out.




Maybe really crappy ones. That's never been my experience with any of the ones I've owned or used extensively (about a half a dozen or so models from a few different manufacturers, and mostly "consumer" grade). Cabs that try to get too much sound out of too small a cab are the boomy ones, because they purposely make the cab too small for the driver to get that obnoxious and amusical low mid bump that happens when you do that.

+1!

I'd like to hear what type of paying gigs people are playing where all that is needed is a small 1x10, 2x10 or 1x12 cabinet.

I get it if you have health issues, or if your in the local coffee shop with no drummer playing to 25 or under customers, or a very low volume jazz / dinner crowd job, or you live in the big city and HAVE to transport your equipment by taxi, or all your work is in the studio, or you never gig outside your home.

I've been at this for a very long time (50 years) and I can't think of a single job in a "live band" I could have come even close to having a 1x12 do the job (even with FOH.)

For reference: I'm with a working, semi-touring, 5 pcs., outlaw country/rock group. Loud but with a controlled stage. Playing large stage shows (with furnished FOH), small stages, bars, pubs animal clubs, ect. (using the bands large, old school JBL P.A. system.)
My stage cabinet is a Bergantino NV610, not really for volume, but for the stage filling tone.

 

[chaosMK]

I downsized from PH410 to PH112 2x... been great! I enjoy the PH112's, similar voicing but a little tighter and more mid focused. I couldnt fit the 4x10 in my Mini Cooper.

 

[JimmyM]

+1!

I'd like to hear what type of paying gigs people are playing where all that is needed is a small 1x10, 2x10 or 1x12 cabinet.

I get it if you have health issues, or if your in the local coffee shop with no drummer playing to 25 or under customers, or a very low volume jazz / dinner crowd job, or you live in the big city and HAVE to transport your equipment by taxi, or all your work is in the studio, or you never gig outside your home.

I've been at this for a very long time (50 years) and I can't think of a single job in a "live band" I could have come even close to having a 1x12 do the job (even with FOH.)

Let's see my old and not-missed-whatsoever oldies band, the dance band I sub for now and then, the folky bluesy band I played with over the summer, and the blues/jazz band I'm with now...all can be done easily with a 210 or 112. And a 50w tube amp. Would I prefer to use an SVT and 810 on everything? Sure. But it's not needed.

 

[Passinwind]

+1!

I'd like to hear what type of paying gigs people are playing where all that is needed is a small 1x10, 2x10 or 1x12 cabinet.

Every winery, wine bar, or restaurant gig I played for a decade, for starters. And that doesn't just mean quiet jazz, although the majority of those gigs were along those lines.

 

[shoot-r]

Let's see my old and not-missed-whatsoever oldies band, the dance band I sub for now and then, the folky bluesy band I played with over the summer, and the blues/jazz band I'm with now...all can be done easily with a 210 or 112. And a 50w tube amp. Would I prefer to use an SVT and 810 on everything? Sure. But it's not needed.

I understand, I just wish downsizing that far would work for my ears.

I'm gathering your saying your present gigs are fairly low volume jobs?

I recently tried a single 210 cabinet with FOH at a biker bar job, 350 to 400+ rowdy/LOUD people out front.
Bass was heard out front through furnished FOH with furnished sound crew running things. On stage I was miserable all night, and being honest the out front sound wasn't great to the band wife's ears.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

+1!

I'd like to hear what type of paying gigs people are playing where all that is needed is a small 1x10, 2x10 or 1x12 cabinet.

I get it if you have health issues, or if your in the local coffee shop with no drummer playing to 25 or under customers, or a very low volume jazz / dinner crowd job, or you live in the big city and HAVE to transport your equipment by taxi, or all your work is in the studio, or you never gig outside your home.

I've been at this for a very long time (50 years) and I can't think of a single job in a "live band" I could have come even close to having a 1x12 do the job (even with FOH.)

For reference: I'm with a working, semi-touring, 5 pcs., outlaw country/rock group. Loud but with a controlled stage. Playing large stage shows (with furnished FOH), small stages, bars, pubs animal clubs, ect. (using the bands large, old school JBL P.A. system.)
My stage cabinet is a Bergantino NV610, not for volume but for tone.

I'm doing it with two Schroeder cabs. One 12PL cab, and then a dual 12 cab. Can go anywhere and is loud if necessary or low as necessary. Most clubs not in FOH. Only larger theater or outdoor gigs in FOH. B|Amp really cooks.

 

[Stumbo]

I recently tried a single 210 cabinet with FOH at a biker bar job, 350 to 400+ rowdy/LOUD people out front... On stage I was miserable all night...

For all the downsizers and those thinking about it, there are really two things that need to be standard with your new rig: an adjustable HPF and a stand(if not a stand, tilting the cab back).

A HPF gives you up to 3db more volume and a stand disconnects the cab from the stage (reducing room boom) and gets the speaker closer to your ears, the better to hear yourself.

 

[Al Kraft]

I understand, I just wish downsizing that far would work for my ears.

I'm gathering your saying your present gigs are fairly low volume jobs?

I recently tried a single 210 cabinet with FOH at a biker bar job, 350 to 400+ rowdy/LOUD people out front.
Bass was heard out front through furnished FOH with furnished sound crew running things. On stage I was miserable all night, and being honest the out front sound wasn't great to the band wife's ears.

There are more than handful of "not stadium sized" jobs I play that really need a something more than a single 12 or 210 as well. However, I have to admit that some of the smaller, lighter weight cabs/cab combinations (e.g. 112/115, 215 and 212 variety) can handle most of them quite nicely. That said, playing a 412 or 212 and 410 set-up is still kind of fun, except for lugging the gear.

 

[the baint]

For all the downsizers and those thinking about it, there are really two things that need to be standard with your new rig: an adjustable HPF and a stand(if not a stand, tilting the cab back).

A HPF gives you up to 3db more volume and a stand disconnects the cab from the stage (reducing room boom) and gets the speaker closer to your ears, the better to hear yourself.

@Stumbo are you aware of any foam wedges appropriate for a 210 vertical cabs? I've been wondering how to tilt my Ampeg on low-volume stages.

 

[JimmyM]

I understand, I just wish downsizing that far would work for my ears.

I'm gathering your saying your present gigs are fairly low volume jobs?

I recently tried a single 210 cabinet with FOH at a biker bar job, 350 to 400+ rowdy/LOUD people out front.
Bass was heard out front through furnished FOH with furnished sound crew running things. On stage I was miserable all night, and being honest the out front sound wasn't great to the band wife's ears.

On a gig like that I'd want an 810. Make no mistake...I'm not against big rigs at all. I have played the giant SVT.

But yeah, my gigs are mostly pretty low to medium stage volume so we don't go deaf. We just try to get a good mix with the drummer. I did just do a gig where I didn't think my 210 was enough to fill the joint because they like it pretty loud there and we had vocals only PA, but most of the time it's not a problem at all.