• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

There's bound to be plenty of people like me who believe wood makes all the difference in the world, despite the fact that various examples can and do sound similar. I can tell the difference between fretboard woods. Many others can't. However, my point is, I wouldn't want to be in a club that is going to bring outrage and arguement. No one can change my opinion and I won't attempt to change theirs. I'm sure there are plenty others who feel the same. My suggestion is, go ahead and start the club. Pretty sure nay-sayers would ruin it for you even if your ideal it to keep it friendly.
 
I feel bad for those who have nothing better to do but make fun of people's opinions on wood. Some of you need to get a life.
oh3l9.jpg
ok but jokes aside wood definitely matters and aside from tone I think we need to have more discussion about the properties of the different common species as well as uncommon ones. Not just tone but weight, density, dryness, how it reacts to temperature and humidity as well as the trade offs with the different wood combinations.
 
View attachment 4716150ok but jokes aside wood definitely matters and aside from tone I think we need to have more discussion about the properties of the different common species as well as uncommon ones. Not just tone but weight, density, dryness, how it reacts to temperature and humidity as well as the trade offs with the different wood combinations.

Awesome points
 
  • Like
Reactions: GTHintz
No bashing from me on this...I would love to understand this more and find some examples that demonstrate the difference that woods make. Presumably, there is a reason besides weight that a builder would choose one wood over another...

Far from an expert here...at one time I believed that a maple body had a tighter more compressed sound than say alder or ash, which had a less compressed quality, but as I gathered more experience, I am not sure I am correct. The only aspect of body wood that I have found makes a significant difference to "tone" is chambering. It seems to me there is a sort of percussive or airy quality to the attack with chambered bodies that true solid bodies do not have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GlennRH
After all the heat I got for posting about tonewood I'd like to ask if we can start an official tonewood Club
(assuming it doesn't exist already)

So we can talk about our theories freely and openly without people getting mad that we have a different opinion than them.

Tone wood is not so "myth" because it is one of factor.....the thing that become a debate is does it affect significantly....but it does a factor start from what wood that be a fretboard....neck construction......then body....

This topic is the same when we talk about does old wood sounds better......too many variable but indeed there is a different.....
 
Not sure about the academic veracity of this source, but here is a website that has technical data of different tonewood species.

PDF Warning - Link Removed

Different wood species vary greatly in strength and density among other things. So if you consider a given Fender neck design with the same dimensions, the neck made out of the stronger wood will bend less, and will also do less to dampen vibrations. A p bass neck made of balsa will be a lot bendier (technical term, I know... stick with me!) and will do more to dampen string vibration than a neck made of 100% rosewood. The rosewood is stronger than balsa, so the same size and shape rosewood neck would vibrate and dampen less than the same neck made of balsa.

Wood sustainability and availability aside, it seems like you would get a great neck from pure rosewood because it is so strong. However, that strength comes with a price - weight. The first source states that the density Indian Rosewood is 53 lbs/ft^3, compared to sitka spruce with a density of 28 lbs/ft^3, so your solid rosewood neck is going to weigh roughly twice as much as the spruce neck. What to choose? These are some of the real life tradeoffs that a builder needs to consider, along with aesthetics, cost, availability, etc.

I think if you look at tonewoods through the lens of material properties it makes a lot of sense why you would choose one over another. Seeing the video of the great sounding 'guitar' strung between two workbenches confirms this - if everything else is the same (strings, pickups & pickup location, etc.), the more rigid the device supporting the strings, the better the tone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YunDu and GrapeBass
Not sure about the academic veracity of this source, but here is a website that has technical data of different tonewood species.

PDF Warning - Link Removed

Different wood species vary greatly in strength and density among other things. So if you consider a given Fender neck design with the same dimensions, the neck made out of the stronger wood will bend less, and will also do less to dampen vibrations. A p bass neck made of balsa will be a lot bendier (technical term, I know... stick with me!) and will do more to dampen string vibration than a neck made of 100% rosewood. The rosewood is stronger than balsa, so the same size and shape rosewood neck would vibrate and dampen less than the same neck made of balsa.

Wood sustainability and availability aside, it seems like you would get a great neck from pure rosewood because it is so strong. However, that strength comes with a price - weight. The first source states that the density Indian Rosewood is 53 lbs/ft^3, compared to sitka spruce with a density of 28 lbs/ft^3, so your solid rosewood neck is going to weigh roughly twice as much as the spruce neck. What to choose? These are some of the real life tradeoffs that a builder needs to consider, along with aesthetics, cost, availability, etc.

I think if you look at tonewoods through the lens of material properties it makes a lot of sense why you would choose one over another. Seeing the video of the great sounding 'guitar' strung between two workbenches confirms this - if everything else is the same (strings, pickups & pickup location, etc.), the more rigid the device supporting the strings, the better the tone.
multi layered neck pieces like ibanez will help prevent this.....? Right.....

Does roasting the neck like musicman also solves the problem that sometome happens on fender.. ?

I am curious
 
Does anybody have links to anything remotely scientific that would prove/disprove tonewood? Discussion without properly researched data is akin to he said she said; damn near pointless.

For acoustics, most likely there is. But for electrics? Doubt it. I doubt anyone here can guess what woods were used on a electric bass or guitar without actually looking at it. That should just tell you everything. But life is short, so have fun with what you want!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Roger W
multi layered neck pieces like ibanez will help prevent this.....? Right.....

Does roasting the neck like musicman also solves the problem that sometome happens on fender.. ?

I am curious

Typically the glue joint between two pieces of wood is stronger than the wood itself, so I think that laminations would help to increase stiffness, but it would really come down to the individual woods used, how they are milled, what type of glue was used, what type of truss rod or other reinforcement is in there.

I am not entirely sure what the roasting process does to change the physical properties of a piece of wood, and I think it would be really interesting to know the pre- and post-roast density, Modulus of Elasticity, and dampening characteristics. I know that roasting removes pretty much all of the moisture, so from a stability standpoint it makes a lot of sense. I am not sure how that would affect the other physical characteristics though.
 
So here is some food for thought, it is proven science, and might possibly be of relevance here:

Fact - Sound travels faster through denser materials. That may have an impact. So sound, which is in reality just a vibration, passes through a dense wood like Maple faster than a lighter wood like Spruce (I used those two examples as they are both used in musical instruments, although admittedly Spruce is generally only used in acoustic instruments)

So... does that impact resonance? I expect that it would change the frequency of any resonance, and may cause a sympathetic vibration to be amplified at some specific frequency and harmonics of that frequency.

But I'm still going to make fun of Tone Wood as having a major impact on the sound of a bass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Roger W
So here is some food for thought, it is proven science, and might possibly be of relevance here:

Fact - Sound travels faster through denser materials. That may have an impact. So sound, which is in reality just a vibration, passes through a dense wood like Maple faster than a lighter wood like Spruce (I used those two examples as they are both used in musical instruments, although admittedly Spruce is generally only used in acoustic instruments)

So... does that impact resonance? I expect that it would change the frequency of any resonance, and may cause a sympathetic vibration to be amplified at some specific frequency and harmonics of that frequency.

But I'm still going to make fun of Tone Wood as having a major impact on the sound of a bass.

Diamond is the hardest strongest material that we know of. If you could make a jazz bass out of pure diamond, it would be the most resonant, least damped jazz bass of them all, with the longest sustain. In lieu of diamonds, builders have to choose something. And if what they choose for tone makes a boat anchor, no one will play it anyway. So you wind up back in the world of tradeoffs.
 
Last edited:
For acoustics, most likely there is. But for electrics? Doubt it. I doubt anyone here can guess what woods were used on a electric bass or guitar without actually looking at it. That should just tell you everything. But life is short, so have fun with what you want!
I doubt many if any could guess the tone wood of acoustic instruments. Feel free to give your best guesses.
BandLab: Make Music Online

For complete points you would need to name the top, back, neck, fingerboard, and bracing. I won't really hold you to naming the binding, head plate, and rosette materials.

My point here is that because you can't name the tone wood doesn't mean that the tone wood has no impact. All you have to do is be able to say Sample A sounds different than Sample B to show that there is a difference. The ridiculous task of asking people to tell you what Sample A is made out of without any reference doesn't tell you anything.

Even worse is when someone will take something with so many changed variables and explain. For example, my Thumb bass sounds different than my Dolphin bass. Same necks, but I wouldn't say my Dolphin sounds like Ovangkol and my Thumb sounds like Bubinga. They also have different pickups, different pickup locations, and different preamps. I like both of them. They are different, but there can also be overlap depending on how the controls are set.

The reason wood matters for tone in acoustic instruments is that they can be designed with the intention of making the wood matter. There are plenty of low end acoustic instruments that look like what they are supposed to be, but are built so that even if they have a nice starting wood species the construction techniques mute any effects the wood would have on tone.

It happens that with an electric instrument, a lot of the instrument is designed to be very rigid which decreases the relative amount the wood will have on tone. However, the parts can still have some effect on the sound of the instrument. The biggest effect on tone in an acoustic instrument is the soundboard or top. The biggest effect on tone in an electric instrument is generally the neck.

Different things a maker does can emphasize the effect or dampen the effect. The dimensions of the neck and the head stock for example. The shape and weight of the headstock and neck can lead to dead spots or wolf notes. These effects are on the extreme end of the spectrum that are obvious and undisputed as existing. The more subtle changes in tone are the disputed and argued ones.

But all of this in my opinion becomes less important based on what most people want in a rig. Unlike an acoustic instrument which will produce a sound and then that sound is generally preserved and replayed with minimum adulteration, a solid bodied instrument produces a sound, converts that sound into a weak electric signal, and then through a series of amplifiers and effects converts that sound into something else. There is a lot of processing that occurs after the wood produces any effects it might have on the tone which in most cases are going to eradicate any of those effects.

If tone wood is very important to someone, they would want some sort of preamp and amplifier that was going to color the sound as little as possible. That person would probably not use any effects or EQ adjustments. Honestly, few of us are that dedicated to having a specific sound from a piece of wood and even fewer makers are interested in teasing out the particular sound of a piece of wood.

I'm reminded of a video I saw once of Takamine guitars where they showed one of their factories in Japan producing hand crafted acoustic instruments. The comments were laced with all of these comments about how skilled and wonderful the workers were. When I watched the video all I could see was people acting like robots, making instruments to spec and no one testing to see if they were making a good instrument. Essentially, the workers just shaved the braces to a size and never checked to see if it produced the desired tone.

There is more to tone wood even in an acoustic instrument than just tapping the piece of wood and saying, "this sounds nice and will make a good instrument." True luthiers constantly check their work and try to get the best sound out of the piece of wood they are working on. There isn't an exact thickness that they always use. The fact that so few considerations are made to allow the wood to have an effect often create the appearance of no effect. So in practice for most people tone wood is more about appearance and status.