Ive been asking this question on a few different threads but havent gotten any responses. Im thinking about building a J, but i dont know what wood to use. I like the sound of of alder in fender Js, but ive heard Jazz basses built with swamp ash and i think i like the sound of it a lot more. I was thinking about how well koa or walnut might repond i na J body. Any thoughts?
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Tonewoods
- Thread starter NineSpine
- Start date
I'm afraid you just have to believe that the people who insist they can hear it are more perceptive and gifted regardless if they even know what their talking about.
Generally claims supported only by anger tend to be rather weak, in my experience.
So can we assume you have done this or are you just making stuff up?
Well yes (not the stainless steel one), I did build a bass from cheap plywood, and a guitar from partical board (with realwood neck) both sounded absolutely sh*t.
And for Stainless steel, if you compare the sound of a dobro with that of a 'wood' acoustic, it will give you an idea about the change in sound.
(For that matter I've played both wooden dobro with only steel resonator and an all steel dobro, and the difference between these 2 is already immense).
And the diffence for solid instruments (as opposed to the 'acoustic' instruments) is the same. The difference itself (played acoustically) is smaller, but the electronics are invented to make the acoustics louder after all.
Peter
It's all relative. For a Nascar driver 5% more horsepower wins races, for the guy driving a 94 Camry that same 5% means somebody is stoked because they made their car go faster.
Ok, less civil.....more normal.
The short and easy answer to the weekly thread about tonewoods is that it depends on many things. Certain configurations may bring out the sound of the woods better than others. Certain configs will color the sound so much that lumber choice will be fairly arbitrary. Yet other configs rely very heavily on the tonewoods and you can hear subtle changes in basses with different tonewoods.
I own many Peavey basses. Each have similar wood configurations, although none are the same. All sound slightly different, although my bass with the different body wood tends to sound the most unique from the herd.
The short and easy answer to the weekly thread about tonewoods is that it depends on many things. Certain configurations may bring out the sound of the woods better than others. Certain configs will color the sound so much that lumber choice will be fairly arbitrary. Yet other configs rely very heavily on the tonewoods and you can hear subtle changes in basses with different tonewoods.
I own many Peavey basses. Each have similar wood configurations, although none are the same. All sound slightly different, although my bass with the different body wood tends to sound the most unique from the herd.
Actually the answer is simpler than that: Opinions abound but there is a dearth of hard data to support any of them.
Vibrational conduction studies of certain materials can be done. If one was to get scientific, I'd think different mediums would have better or worse conduction. I'd think some also have certain frequency responses. I'd think this would really confirm things, but it sounds like a lot of work, eh?
butchblack
Life is short. Do good. Find and do what you love.
Bass Sound = 10%wood/materials + 10%construction + 15% Bass Electronics + 25%amp/speakers + 25%player + 15% strings
I'd say that's about right although pickup placement has a lot to do with sound. I think it's ridiculous to think that the body wood has no effect on the sound, but you should be able to get a sound that you're happy with, with most basses, by adjusting or changing your amp/speakers and/or changing strings
I was having a clanking noise problem with my Fernandes, a very bright sounding bass that was solved by switching from grounds to flats and changing my technique slightly.
I'd say that's about right although pickup placement has a lot to do with sound. I think it's ridiculous to think that the body wood has no effect on the sound, but you should be able to get a sound that you're happy with, with most basses, by adjusting or changing your amp/speakers and/or changing strings
I was having a clanking noise problem with my Fernandes, a very bright sounding bass that was solved by switching from grounds to flats and changing my technique slightly.
Yes, studies could be done, but what would the data tell you in terms of what sounds "better" or if any differences detected make it out the output jack?
It would probably support that different substances conduct at different rates and certain frequencies are better/worse. How it applies to a bass....depends on the rest of the bass and rig.
But there's still the acoustic to electronic relationship to establish (how do those different acoustic conduction rates affect what comes out electrically?) and the aesthetic judgement call of what constitutes "better" if there is indeed any difference at the output of the bass.
"Better" is subjective. The frequency responses and conduction properties are about all that can be scientificially measured. The rest is up to the ears of the beholder......
Yes, but even frequency response and conduction properties, once they are measured, are merely physical properties of materials. How (and if) they affect the electrical output of the instrument isn't an easy thing to prove unambiguously.
To answer the question from my desk (and no, I'm not a luthier, I just happen to work in a shop that builds basses and get to play ALL of them before they go out - I'm the QC dude):
Heck yes the woods affect the tone.
How? Not something I can define with precision. However, each individual species of wood seems to have an "overall" defining characteristic - i.e. ash is punchy and a bit "midrangy", Spanish cedar is very "open" and warm sounding, mahogany is warm and a bit "compressed" sounding.
I've heard literally HUNDREDS of examples of the exact same model bass with the exact same electronics through the exact same amp with the exact same hands, where the ONLY difference is the woods in the bass.
There IS a difference. Period.
Why? Not 100% sure, but I am of the opinion that it has to do with the interaction of the resonance of ALL the woods and how it interacts with the vibration of the string.
Also, I always check each bass unplugged first, and you can DEFINITELY hear a difference then.
There are even differences in tone between two basses with IDENTICAL woods, however those differences are typically (not always) very minimal.
It all adds up, I won't say the wood choices are the single most strong factor (that would be the player), but I will say that it is at least the equal of the onboard electronics (pickups & preamp).
Heck yes the woods affect the tone.
How? Not something I can define with precision. However, each individual species of wood seems to have an "overall" defining characteristic - i.e. ash is punchy and a bit "midrangy", Spanish cedar is very "open" and warm sounding, mahogany is warm and a bit "compressed" sounding.
I've heard literally HUNDREDS of examples of the exact same model bass with the exact same electronics through the exact same amp with the exact same hands, where the ONLY difference is the woods in the bass.
There IS a difference. Period.
Why? Not 100% sure, but I am of the opinion that it has to do with the interaction of the resonance of ALL the woods and how it interacts with the vibration of the string.
Also, I always check each bass unplugged first, and you can DEFINITELY hear a difference then.
There are even differences in tone between two basses with IDENTICAL woods, however those differences are typically (not always) very minimal.
It all adds up, I won't say the wood choices are the single most strong factor (that would be the player), but I will say that it is at least the equal of the onboard electronics (pickups & preamp).
- Dec 20, 2004
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- Player-Builder-Founder: Honey Badger Pickups & Regenerate Guitar Works
when I tap wood to hear its 'tap tone', I am listening for acoustic signs that would reveal internal and/or unseen cracks in the wood. a body blank with internal cracks will lack the resonance that a solid piece has. if I am listening for these defects I can save myself from wasting time and expense on reject wood
as for tone ... every block is going to ring differently based on its dimensions and (to a lessor extent) moisture content and density. two pieces of lumber from the same rough board, when cut to differing dimensions will sound with a different pitch and resonance. IMO I could really care less - because I am looking for defects when I thunk on a piece of lumber
all the best,
R
- Dec 20, 2004
- 4,267
- 2,481
- Disclosures
- Player-Builder-Founder: Honey Badger Pickups & Regenerate Guitar Works
o really? then you just might be interested in this little experiment I've been keeping track of on a few recent Dark Star modification jobs
Link Removed
I think you'll find it interesting how different two basses can really sound when everything else is the same ... and just how different one specific bass can sound when changing to a different pickup placed in the same location
(note: definitely NOT a commercial plug, as my doors are closed to any new work until after I relocate cross country and build/furnish my new shop)
all the best,
R
Well many talented luthiers have done it and they have sounded great, maybe it's your skill? Got any pics of these basses?
Actually there is tons of data on the way we can hear things and how finely our ears can define tones and how accurate they are when comparing one or more tone. Even though it is usually the responsibility of the claimant to demonstrate their position with something more than just anger there is already enough hard science to show the claims are without any substance.
This is like the late night TV claims about amazing super products with miracle breakthroughs that somehow hasn't been seen by any of your more conventional scientists.
But for anyone that thinks they can identify wood species with their ears we can test that. Who would like to step forward to show their skills without knowing what the wood is first?
And they have, it's first grade science.
http://www.sciencekidsathome.com/science_topics/what_is_sound.html
If we bring science into it this discussion is long over
Or one could simply study the hundreds & hundreds of years of science that's already been done.
Wood or metal can not have a specific frequency response common to all objects made from that material, look at a marimba, how can you get different notes out of a single wood? Simply change it's shape and mass or many other things.
