Tonewoods

[NineSpine]

Ive have two friends, one of which swears by the fact that the idea of "tonewoods" is trash and that an electronic instrument can only be very minimally changed by the wood it is made out of of. The other one disagrees and says wood makes a drastic difference.

I have to say the first one makes a good point. People tell me maple sounds bright for example... but that's just because instruments they played made of maple were bright. Well someone trying to build a bright bass would inevitably use brighter pickups so that could be the source of the tone.

Can anyone shine some light on this for me? Preferably with some science that isnt like "Well wood vibrates duh".

 

[ggunn]

Ive have two friends, one of which swears by the fact that the idea of "tonewoods" is trash and that an electronic instrument can only be very minimally changed by the wood it is made out of of. The other one disagrees and says wood makes a drastic difference.

I have to say the first one makes a good point. People tell me maple sounds bright for example... but that's just because instruments they played made of maple were bright. Well someone trying to build a bright bass would inevitably use brighter pickups so that could be the source of the tone.

Can anyone shine some light on this for me? Preferably with some science that isnt like "Well wood vibrates duh".

Your two friends pretty much describe the polarity of opinions on the subject, and there have been long and bloody threads about it in here. Opinions abound but there is no hard data either way. Mine is that if you hear a difference then it's real to you. Find a bass that sounds good to you and forget about why it sounds the way it does.

 

[jady]

Coming from the world of URB I can say that wood has a tone of it's own. However, certain pickups, preamps and speakers will color the sound. It is a combination of all factors.

 

[CYoung]

Let's break it down:

Bass Sound = Wood/Materials + Construction + Bass Electronics (including pickups) + amp/speaker(s) + player + strings

The only real question is how much does each factor contribute to the overall sound?

In my not so humble opinion, it breaks down like this:

Bass Sound = 10%wood/materials + 10%construction + 15% Bass Electronics + 25%amp/speakers + 25%player + 15% strings

This is, of course, my opinion and holds precisely zero real value.

In summary: Is the body wood a factor? Yes, definitely. Is it the all-defining influential factor? No.

I just buy basses that fit me, fit my budget, fit my style, and sound good. I have basses made from maple, bubinga, and walnut, and they all sound good, but with their own unique sounds.

 

[Flintc]

Bass Sound = 10%wood/materials + 10%construction + 15% Bass Electronics + 25%amp/speakers + 25%player + 15% strings

This sounds about right to me as well, and highlights the ease of holding all else equal for some variables, and the difficult with other variables.

Strings are a snap; change them and listen. Amp/speakers are also fairly straight forward, if you plug into different systems and listen.

Changing the wood and materials is tough, because when you switch even to the same bass in a different wood, you're looking at somewhat different construction.

If you're looking for very different sounds from two different basses, notice that 50% (by this estimation) probably doesn't change - the amp and the player. The implication here is that fully half your total sound has nothing to do with the bass you're playing. And I think this is correct.

 

[Tom Howland]

Let's break it down:

Bass Sound = Wood/Materials + Construction + Bass Electronics (including pickups) + amp/speaker(s) + player + strings

The only real question is how much does each factor contribute to the overall sound?

In my not so humble opinion, it breaks down like this:

Bass Sound = 10%wood/materials + 10%construction + 15% Bass Electronics + 25%amp/speakers + 25%player + 15% strings

This is, of course, my opinion and holds precisely zero real value.

In summary: Is the body wood a factor? Yes, definitely. Is it the all-defining influential factor? No.

I just buy basses that fit me, fit my budget, fit my style, and sound good. I have basses made from maple, bubinga, and walnut, and they all sound good, but with their own unique sounds.

Well said.
It's the sum of everthing.

 

[ggunn]

Well said.
It's the sum of everthing.

And as all who have ever partaken of certain substances know...

Everything is everything.

 

[Stu Rose]

Greetings,

Hows this, at any given time any particular piece of wood may happen to sound good and some don't even if it's the same variety from the same log.

Take any 2 basses from the same builder, same woods, same everything, and one sounds great and the other doesn't.

However with that said finger boards do seem to make the biggest difference, rosewood, maple, ebony, these change the tone quite a bit.

Of course my opinion is no better than anyone else's but this has been my experience!

 

[GeddyisGod]

Somebody posted a link a while back to a really cool website that gave detailed descriptions of various tonewoods. I found it to be a cool read.

 

[Double Agent]

However with that said finger boards do seem to make the biggest difference, rosewood, maple, ebony, these change the tone quite a bit.

While I tend to agree with you, I don't know if it makes the biggest difference, but I think it does change things from bass to bass. Roger Sadowsky claims it makes a big difference as well on the Sadowsky website.

However, many willl disagree with Roger & us and say that fingerboard wood is merely an asthetic choice and makes no difference in tone whatsoever. I do think certain woods make better basses generally, but it also comes down to taste. I hate mahogany for basses, but some guys love it. So, its all in the ears of the beholder whether these things make a difference or not. If you hear a difference, thats all that matters. Trouble comes in when we try to tout our opinions as fact.

 

[Double Agent]

Somebody posted a link a while back to a really cool website that gave detailed descriptions of various tonewoods. I found it to be a cool read.

Is this it?

Invalid Link Removed

Love your username, btw.

 

[Flintc]

Smith is another wood resource

 

[stedtale]

mid-hump growl?

 

[ggunn]

If you hear a difference, thats all that matters. Trouble comes in when we try to tout our opinions as fact.

+1X10^6

 

[Steve]

this is about as contentious a subject as can be discussed but, it's pretty apparent to me that you can't take a Bartolini package out of an MTD, put it in a Fender and make it sound like Mike Tobias built it.

You can't put Roger Sadowsky's electronics in an MTD and expect it to sound like a Sadowsky.

There is way more going on than electronics.

IMO

 

[Double Agent]

this is about as contentious a subject as can be discussed but, it's pretty apparent to me that you can't take a Bartolini package out of an MTD, put it in a Fender and make it sound like Mike Tobias built it.

You can't put Roger Sadowsky's electronics in an MTD and expect it to sound like a Sadowsky.

There is way more going on than electronics.

IMO

+1

I was waiting for someone else to point this out as well. I am glad you brought up MTD actually. Great builder. Builds beautiful instruments. If woods were not an important part of the equation, why would some MTD players swear by the wenge/wenge neck and fingerboard while others prefer maple on maple? Makes no difference, right? Why do some so passionately prefer ash bodied MTDs while others prefer mahogany or tulipwood or some other kind of body wood? If the electronics were so important, these things wouldn't make a difference. Yet, almost every MTD player will tell you the woods make a big difference. I know Mike uses quality woods on all his basses, so it isn't like one is clearly better than the other, but they are significantly different enough for people to choose what they prefer. So, I would side with the second guy in the OP. I think tonewoods make a big difference in the end result.

 

[ggunn]

+1

I was waiting for someone else to point this out as well. I am glad you brought up MTD actually. Great builder. Builds beautiful instruments. If woods were not an important part of the equation, why would some MTD players swear by the wenge/wenge neck and fingerboard while others prefer maple on maple? Makes no difference, right? Why do some so passionately prefer ash bodied MTDs while others prefer mahogany or tulipwood or some other kind of body wood? If the electronics were so important, these things wouldn't make a difference. Yet, almost every MTD player will tell you the woods make a big difference. I know Mike uses quality woods on all his basses, so it isn't like one is clearly better than the other, but they are significantly different enough for people to choose what they prefer. So, I would side with the second guy in the OP. I think tonewoods make a big difference in the end result.

As you yourself pointed out, if you hear a difference then that's all that matters. It's real to you.

The audio/pro sound marketplace is full of unsubstantiated claims and they all have their steadfast believers and defenders. The most steadfast of all are the ones who have spent big money on something. I take that back; they are second to the ones who have something to sell.

I take no position either way on the influence of woods in the sound of what is basically a plank of wood with strings and pickups attached.

 

[permagrin]

Let's break it down:

Bass Sound = Wood/Materials + Construction + Bass Electronics (including pickups) + amp/speaker(s) + player + strings

The only real question is how much does each factor contribute to the overall sound?

In my not so humble opinion, it breaks down like this:

Bass Sound = 10%wood/materials + 10%construction + 15% Bass Electronics + 25%amp/speakers + 25%player + 15% strings

This is, of course, my opinion and holds precisely zero real value.

In summary: Is the body wood a factor? Yes, definitely. Is it the all-defining influential factor? No.

I just buy basses that fit me, fit my budget, fit my style, and sound good. I have basses made from maple, bubinga, and walnut, and they all sound good, but with their own unique sounds.

This oversimplifies the situation by implying that the various factors are independent; one need also consider each's effect on the other. I feel the "math" is not a sum, but a more complex equation.

(And BTW I think we've left out a big one - design - unless that's considered part of construction.)

 

[bearfoot]

It's all about what happens at the bridge. Whether hollow or solid body, its the energy going back through the bridge to the string that colors the sound.
There really is no debating that this occurs. The issue arises from different people's ability and willingness to hear, and just the general kind of weird BS that occurs in forums, hot air. Most of us can at least tell maple from mahogany, there is really just a few stubborn people who would rather appear smart while thrashing their brains on science then stop and listen....real musicians can hear it easily. But not all who play instruments are musicians.

 

[bearfoot]

btw that's in general and not directed at any of you's !