Too cranky?

[electracoyote]

Play for fun says to me we don't get paid. any decent female keyboard player that sings will not be interested.

+1

Again, you don't want to emphasize the "un-serious" aspect of your project. It may be part-time, it may never turn into a full-time endeavor, you may all have full-time employment and families that remain the priority, but the band is still a serious endeavor--you hold yourselves and your product to a high standard which you hope translates into some semblance of success with audiences and the entertainment industry at the local level. In order to attract the talent you seek, you need to emphasize that. It's not stamp collecting; it's more like piloting a small plane. You may only do it on the weekends, and it may be fun, but you better know what you're doing, take it seriously, and not crash and burn.

Avoid the "only for shizz and giggles" language or you'll get a lot of responses from people who think talent and abilities don't really matter, and the truly talented ones may take a pass. In my neighborhood, a good female keyboardist with good equipment and voice (lead and harmony vocals) would be a rare and valuable find.

 

[jamro217]

"Yes, we're having fun, drill sargeant!"

 

[jamro217]

Short and sweet is the way:

"R&B, blues, and rock band with originals and some covers seeking keyboard player. Vocal ability is a huge plus. We rehearse once a month or so and gig selectively. We also do some recording as well. Fun and creativity is our main goal so we are looking for someone who's not too serious but also a very capable musician."

You should moonlight as an ad writer.

 

[electracoyote]

"Yes, we're having fun, drill sargeant!"

For serious musicians, success and time well-invested are EXTREMELY fun.

 

[Biggbass]

Hobby band that is suggesting a semi pro level addition to the band, recording a CD project and looking for gigs seems like an oxymoron. Might want to edit some.
But, yes it sounds like a bunch of cranky old guys who want a chick in the band. I wouldn't reply to an
ad like that. Sounds too negative.

 

[jeffbrown]

+1

Again, you don't want to emphasize the "un-serious" aspect of your project. It may be part-time, it may never turn into a full-time endeavor, you may all have full-time employment and families that remain the priority, but the band is still a serious endeavor--you hold yourselves and your product to a high standard which you hope translates into some semblance of success with audiences and the entertainment industry at the local level. In order to attract the talent you seek, you need to emphasize that. It's not stamp collecting; it's more like piloting a small plane. You may only do it on the weekends, and it may be fun, but you better know what you're doing, take it seriously, and not crash and burn.

Avoid the "only for shizz and giggles" language or you'll get a lot of responses from people who think talent and abilities don't really matter, and the truly talented ones may take a pass. In my neighborhood, a good female keyboardist with good equipment and voice (lead and harmony vocals) would be a rare and valuable find.

Um, "... we take pride in our sound." Is that an un-serious statement? I didn't think so when I wrote it.

Play for fun says to me we don't get paid. any decent female keyboard player that sings will not be interested.

Perhaps, but money isn't everything. We're looking for like-minded individuals who enjoy playing for itself. We're not pros, and we have no intention, inclination, or desire to go there.

I agree that you were very specific, and I think your ad was just right. I was referring to other people's posts about casting a wide net, one of which suggested the "vocals a plus" wording, not yours.

Copy that.

The fact *is* that we are indeed a hobby band, which fact I left out in the final, final edit. If we get an overqualified, more "professionally inclined* respondent, we will all know it fairly quickly, and take it from there.

 

[jeffbrown]

Hobby band that is suggesting a semi pro level addition to the band, recording a CD project and looking for gigs seems like an oxymoron. Might want to edit some.
But, yes it sounds like a bunch of cranky old guys who want a chick in the band. I wouldn't reply to an
ad like that. Sounds too negative.

Please read the final final edit.

Thanks!

 

[modulusman]

Um, "... we take pride in our sound." Is that an un-serious statement? I didn't think so when I wrote it.




Perhaps, but money isn't everything. We're looking for like-minded individuals who enjoy playing for itself. We're not pros, and we have no intention, inclination, or desire to go there.



Copy that.

The fact *is* that we are indeed a hobby band, which fact I left out in the final, final edit. If we get an overqualified, more "professionally inclined* respondent, we will all know it fairly quickly, and take it from there.

So you will waste some ones valuable time to come an audition for a band that will probably never get out of the basement.

 

[Krystal Childs]

Haha. Already had the UNtalented f "singer"s respond the last time. I'm attempting to be businesslike in my approach. Is this what you think of the *final* revision?

Sounds like you pretty much covered what you are seeking. But to me it doesn't sound like you play paying gigs much and are just doing it more as a fun hobby. Which is fine if that is what your in too. Hope you find what your looking for.

 

[electracoyote]

Um, "... we take pride in our sound." Is that an un-serious statement? I didn't think so when I wrote it.

No, that's not what modulusman and I were referring to. I actually like language such as "we take pride in our sound." I'm only cautioning about language that insinuates you do it mainly for fun, or a hobby. As true as those sentiments may be, I think you play those cards close to the chest to attract serious-minded musicians first, and later in the conversation let them know that it should be fun and enjoyable for everyone as well, and what constitutes your definition of "fun." (Recording? Rehearsing? Performing? How often, what percentage of each? etc.)

I'm a multi-instrumentalist. I'm currently doing lead vocals, guitars, keyboards, and harmonica in the band I auditioned for and joined last year. Most of us who bill ourselves as double or triple threats want to be sure, first and foremost, that we're not wasting our time and talent with the projects we join. Rest assured I am having a blast in this band, but there was considerable hard work at the start, and good musicians not only accept that, they want to hear it expressed and accepted by the others in the project as well. It's a selling point in my book to know that other prospective bandmates have a solid work ethic and take it seriously.

For a lot of us, even the most "fun" rehearsals and recording sessions are a grind compared to performing for a roomful of appreciative people. If you are an entertainment unit, your keyboard/vocals candidates will want to know where you're playing, how often, who's your audience, what pay, etc. Or, they'll want to know how much time you spend in the rehearsal room or studio.

 

[jeffbrown]

OK, gang. I'm 62 years young, and although my personality is usually pretty kind and forgiving, I AM starting to get just a WEE bit cranky, now. I can actually become a cranky old fart. Here goes:

I totally get that many on this list are "serious" musos, and I appreciate that. BTDT. I also appreciate/understand that many are in this biz for, at the very least, a certain remuneration for their efforts. BTDT, also. I have been that pro, but I gave it up many, many years ago, for many, many different reasons, but I DO get it.

I would like those folks to try to understand that there are many, many others here on TB who play bass, among other instruments, for FUN and ENJOYMENT with little to no thought of monetary compensation. We read what is said here by *everyone* and attempt to glean knowledge and wisdom, and maybe even pass some along. That said (and I hope you're still reading and not jumping to premature conclusions - I already got that, on CL AND elsewhere ), my band does NOT do the pay-to-play thing, nor do we frequent open mics to hear ourselves play, nor to provide free music for greedy bar owners.

My hope in posting this on CL is/was to attract like-minded (like US) persons who understand where WE are at, who feel the same way WE do - that we enjoy playing because we have fun with it, and have no illusions about going big-time, or even, for that matter, gigging *regularly*. Believe it or don't, but there ARE people like us out here.... We do it because we like to play - for ourselves, our friends, and family. That we like to sound good should come as no surprise. I am surprised and dismayed that many here have misinterpreted what I'm trying to do, and try to infuse their values/priorities on mine. I thought I was clear -- my apologies if I was not. Remember, I lead with "hobby band". I did never state that we are an actively gigging band, or that any certain level of "professionalism" was expected, other than to have gear that is capable. If it were a little Casio toy with built-in speakers, it couldn't do what we want to hear/do. No crime in that, eh? Someone mentioned taking in an aspiring musician who could learn as she goes, and that would also be something we could consider. That situation has not yet presented itself. Would we like to gig? Sure, and we have, but still. Priorities, and all that.

Yes, we HAVE recorded a CD, and the people we have exposed to it, family AND not, have responded very favorably. Because we want to do more with what we enjoy, we want to get a bigger sound, with more options. No surprise? Good. When we finish it, maybe you'll buy one.

I am sure most here are trying to be helpful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, and thanks also to those who seem to get it. I have incorporated many of your suggestions. PLEASE try to understand where WE are at is all I ask. No need to flame, just comprehend.

Have a nice day, and GET OFF MY LAWN! (Rant over.)

 

[mellowinman]

I'm a male, and I do play keyboards, but I don't want to. I would like to sing lead on most songs, and backing vocals and kazoo on others. I expect to be paid a lot of money, and rarely will be on key. I will huff a lot of airplane glue during live shows, so if I pass out, you will need to switch up the set list a bit.

 

[Lobster11]

Don't feed the trolls.

 

[modulusman]

OK, gang. I'm 62 years young, and although my personality is usually pretty kind and forgiving, I AM starting to get just a WEE bit cranky, now. I can actually become a cranky old fart. Here goes:

I totally get that many on this list are "serious" musos, and I appreciate that. BTDT. I also appreciate/understand that many are in this biz for, at the very least, a certain remuneration for their efforts. BTDT, also. I have been that pro, but I gave it up many, many years ago, for many, many different reasons, but I DO get it.

I would like those folks to try to understand that there are many, many others here on TB who play bass, among other instruments, for FUN and ENJOYMENT with little to no thought of monetary compensation. We read what is said here by *everyone* and attempt to glean knowledge and wisdom, and maybe even pass some along. That said (and I hope you're still reading and not jumping to premature conclusions - I already got that, on CL AND elsewhere ), my band does NOT do the pay-to-play thing, nor do we frequent open mics to hear ourselves play, nor to provide free music for greedy bar owners.

My hope in posting this on CL is/was to attract like-minded (like US) persons who understand where WE are at, who feel the same way WE do - that we enjoy playing because we have fun with it, and have no illusions about going big-time, or even, for that matter, gigging *regularly*. Believe it or don't, but there ARE people like us out here.... We do it because we like to play - for ourselves, our friends, and family. That we like to sound good should come as no surprise. I am surprised and dismayed that many here have misinterpreted what I'm trying to do, and try to infuse their values/priorities on mine. I thought I was clear -- my apologies if I was not. Remember, I lead with "hobby band". I did never state that we are an actively gigging band, or that any certain level of "professionalism" was expected, other than to have gear that is capable. If it were a little Casio toy with built-in speakers, it couldn't do what we want to hear/do. No crime in that, eh? Someone mentioned taking in an aspiring musician who could learn as she goes, and that would also be something we could consider. That situation has not yet presented itself. Would we like to gig? Sure, and we have, but still. Priorities, and all that.

Yes, we HAVE recorded a CD, and the people we have exposed to it, family AND not, have responded very favorably. Because we want to do more with what we enjoy, we want to get a bigger sound, with more options. No surprise? Good. When we finish it, maybe you'll buy one.

I am sure most here are trying to be helpful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, and thanks also to those who seem to get it. I have incorporated many of your suggestions. PLEASE try to understand where WE are at is all I ask. No need to flame, just comprehend.

Have a nice day, and GET OFF MY LAWN! (Rant over.)

I just find it funny that you start a thread about people misrepresenting what they are on craigslist then you run an add saying that you are not a hobby band when if fact you are.

 

[Omega Monkey]

It's definitely much better now than it was at the start. Could still be better (I'd say it's about 85%), but it should be passable.

But I guess I don't understand; if you're all happy with the band sound as it is, why only accept everything or nothing at all if you could have at least keys OR vocals, and still be adding to the band. And especially considering money is not really a priority, why arbitrarily limit the band to 5 rather than 6 people, especially when you aren't really gigging and only practice once a month?

+1

Again, you don't want to emphasize the "un-serious" aspect of your project. It may be part-time, it may never turn into a full-time endeavor, you may all have full-time employment and families that remain the priority, but the band is still a serious endeavor--you hold yourselves and your product to a high standard which you hope translates into some semblance of success with audiences and the entertainment industry at the local level. In order to attract the talent you seek, you need to emphasize that. It's not stamp collecting; it's more like piloting a small plane. You may only do it on the weekends, and it may be fun, but you better know what you're doing, take it seriously, and not crash and burn.

Avoid the "only for shizz and giggles" language or you'll get a lot of responses from people who think talent and abilities don't really matter, and the truly talented ones may take a pass. In my neighborhood, a good female keyboardist with good equipment and voice (lead and harmony vocals) would be a rare and valuable find.

YES. Why is this such an alien concept for people? Just because a band is not actively trying to get on radio/MTV, does not mean it can't be "serious" and just because a band is "serious" does not mean it can't (and shouldn't) be fun. Frankly, if music is work, you're doing it wrong. Obviously not every practice or gig can be fun, but if on balance they're more work than fun, you're probably in the wrong situation.

 

[jeffbrown]

Again, thanks to all who helped.

I just find it funny that you start a thread about people misrepresenting what they are on craigslist then you run an add saying that you are not a hobby band when if fact you are.

Um, not exactly. You did read the WHOLE thread, right?

I'm a male, and I do play keyboards, but I don't want to. I would like to sing lead on most songs, and backing vocals and kazoo on others. I expect to be paid a lot of money, and rarely will be on key. I will huff a lot of airplane glue during live shows, so if I pass out, you will need to switch up the set list a bit.

And thanks for your constructive comments. LOL Perhaps you should try the COMEDY open mics... Troll.

I suppose as with all such forums, we play, and I do mean "play", host to some folks who aren't in it to contribute in a positive fashion, to put it kindly. Oh, well.

 

[electracoyote]

I just love it when people ask a question on TB and get cranky when they hear what you think, instead of what they think.

Classic.

 

[Lobster11]

Jeff,

While duly acknowledging a troll or two in this thread, I think you might be over-reacting a bit, or at least over-generalizing, in your missive in post #71. I might have missed or mis-read a post or two, but it has seemed to me that most of the comments about "hobby band" and "just for fun" in this thread have not been not intended to criticize your decision to have that kind of band or adopt that kind of approach to your band. Instead, I think some people just define those terms differently, and wondered aloud whether a band that gigs regularly and produces CDs is properly described as a "hobby" or "just-for-fun" band. More importantly, I think most of those posts were in the right spirit, and were intended to helpfully address your original question about how to best word your CL ad. I think the point of most such posts was that to many people, "hobby band" and "just for fun" translate as "not really serious about the music," and people were advising you against using those terms in the CL ad because they might be (mis)interpreted in that way and discourage some potentially ideal candidates from responding. You do not need to defend your desire to have a "hobby band," or to pursue this "just for fun." The question on the table was how best to word the ad to attract what you're looking for, and I think the vast majority of responses have been well intentioned with respect to answering that specific question.

 

[electracoyote]

Jeff,

While duly acknowledging a troll or two in this thread, I think you might be over-reacting a bit, or at least over-generalizing, in your missive in post #71. I might have missed or mis-read a post or two, but it has seemed to me that most of the comments about "hobby band" and "just for fun" in this thread have not been not intended to criticize your decision to have that kind of band or adopt that kind of approach to your band. Instead, I think some people just define those terms differently, and wondered aloud whether a band that gigs regularly and produces CDs is properly described as a "hobby" or "just-for-fun" band. More importantly, I think most of those posts were in the right spirit, and were intended to helpfully address your original question about how to best word your CL ad. I think the point of most such posts was that to many people, "hobby band" and "just for fun" translate as "not really serious about the music," and people were advising you against using those terms in the CL ad because they might be (mis)interpreted in that way and discourage some potentially ideal candidates from responding. You do not need to defend your desire to have a "hobby band," or to pursue this "just for fun." The question on the table was how best to word the ad to attract what you're looking for, and I think the vast majority of responses have been well intentioned with respect to answering that specific question.

Well, at least you get it.

 

[gln1955]

The first order of business with anyone answering that ad is to have a frank discussion of what the goals of the band and the candidate member are. Up to that point no one is really wasting anyones time. The OP could spell this out more clearly in the ad, but the discussion still needs to take place before anything else happens.