Too cranky?

[Lobster11]

Can you weed out the ones who can't do both with the initial email response or by talking with them on the phone? I'm thinking that sort of thing may be necessary with no real way around it with CL.

Exactly what I was thinking. You now know from your previous experience that when people respond, you need to confirm that they actually own and play keys, etc. before bringing them in for an audition. No need to complain about that previous experience in the ad.

 

[Reverend T]

We're looking to add a f vox/keys player. I put this on the local CL:

-------------------------------
OK, going to try again:

Female vocalist/keyboardist wanted to diversify our sound. Let me be clear - you play KEYS and you can sing. Tried this here before and got replies from singers with NO keys. Please - we aren't going to be your backing band, we aren't looking for a backup singer with NO keys.... It just isn't who we are, where we're at, what we need. If you're looking for a backing band, with all due respect, it isn't us.

SPOILER ALERT: WE ARE A HOBBY BAND. We have no expectations of making it big, getting recording deals, etc. If >that's< where you want to go, stop here, and good luck to you! // We are laid back professional adults in other fields *who play for fun*. We need you to sing lead on *some* songs, backup on others, plus add your keys to the mix. Mostly R&B, blues, and rock; originals and some covers - we're open to any material you may have, want to cover, and expect you to contribute to songwriting when we collaborate on stuff. You can cover synth/strings/mellotron-type sounds as well as horns, and of course piano, organ (think B3 w/Leslie patch). We rehearse about once a month in Manchester, take ideas home, and work on them individually. We've recorded a CD and played open mics to positive reviews, and we take pride in our sound. We are looking to record another CD this spring/summer. You have your own gear (no toys) which can reproduce the sort of sounds listed above (PA NOT needed) and is gig-capable, and transportation. Experience a BIG plus. Please, no drama, drugs, divas, or karaoke queens. If this intrigues you, let's talk.

--------------------------------

Am I sounding too cranky? Am I expecting too much? Like I mentioned, I tried this before and it was as if there was NO mention of keys in the posting. NONE. Many replies, not a single one had keys experience, let alone gear.... LOL

Yeah, I know, it is CL, what should I expect? Maybe that respondents can read the whole thing before replying? As always, I appreciate the collective wisdom of the forum.

TIA!

Yeah, cranky. I wouldn't reply to that as well. But it shows you know what you want and are a no nonsense band. I do believe you can convey the same message while still coming across as more approachable. And the fact that you need to ask itself shows that at some level you find your own post cranky. Either way, good luck with your search!

 

[Double E]

Short and sweet is the way:

"R&B, blues, and rock band with originals and some covers seeking keyboard player. Vocal ability is a huge plus. We rehearse once a month or so and gig selectively. We also do some recording as well. Fun and creativity is our main goal so we are looking for someone who's not too serious but also a very capable musician."

 

[mdogs]

The bottom line truth is that, even with a perfectly worded ad, you are going to get many responses that have little or nothing to do with the ad. Just try running a help wanted ad on Craigslist sometime and see what you get! You are truly looking for a needle in a haystack. I live in an area that has an abundance of musicians, I know no female keyboard players, let alone ones that sing also. Well, let me clarify, if you are looking for women who are over 60 and play exclusively at church, you might be in luck...

 

[Double E]

The bottom line truth is that, even with a perfectly worded ad, you are going to get many responses that have little or nothing to do with the ad. Just try running a help wanted ad on Craigslist sometime and see what you get! You are truly looking for a needle in a haystack. I live in an area that has an abundance of musicians, I know no female keyboard players, let alone ones that sing also. Well, let me clarify, if you are looking for women who are over 60 and play exclusively at church, you might be in luck...

You really have to just cast a huge net with a friendly, non-polarizing ad...you don't want to deter anyone who can actually play with any kind of negative vibe. You just gotta be prepared to weed out the folks that don't fit. Yes, it's frustrating, yes...it's time consuming, but that's just the way it is.

 

[hsech]

Not cranky at all. You are asking for two simple things. Keys and female vocals. Who would take offense at that? If they don't meet your requirements, they shouldn't respond. I would rather know up front exactly what the band is looking for before I wasted my time answering a Craigslist ad.

 

[jeffbrown]

Thanks for more suggestions! I've taken them all to heart, and this is the final, final edit :

-----------------------------

Female keyboardist who can sing wanted to diversify our sound.

We are laid back professional adults in other fields *who play for fun*. We've recorded a CD and played open mics to positive reviews, and we take pride in our sound. We are looking to record another CD this spring/summer. We primarily need you to add your keys to the mix, and to sing lead on some songs, backup on others. Mostly R&B, blues, and rock; originals and a few covers - we're open to material you may have, want to cover, and expect you to contribute to songwriting when we collaborate on stuff. You can cover synth/strings/mellotron-type sounds as well as horns, and of course piano, organ. We rehearse about once a month in Manchester, take ideas home, and work on them individually. You have the appropriate gear which can reproduce the sort of sounds listed above and is *gig-capable*, and transportation. Experience a BIG plus. Please, no drama, drugs, divas, or karaoke queens. If this intrigues you, let's talk.

-------------------------------

I think the "play for fun" and "take pride in our sound" comments speak to our attitude. I have tried to pare it down and take out any redundancy. The rest, if time is taken to actually read it, is self-explanatory. If one takes the time....

 

[SteveHeissner]

You've done an excellent job managing expectations. The ad is damn near perfect.

 

[Eric_71]

You really have to just cast a huge net with a friendly, non-polarizing ad...you don't want to deter anyone who can actually play with any kind of negative vibe. You just gotta be prepared to weed out the folks that don't fit. Yes, it's frustrating, yes...it's time consuming, but that's just the way it is.

Totally agree. I found my last band via craigslist, and the way the ad was written was a big part of it. It basically said "You know, I see a lot of people demanding certain age ranges or interest in a specific genre or a particular look. What do we demand? Nothing. We just want someone who is interested in making the best damn record possible. If you have ever listened to Sgt. Pepper's or Dark Side of the Moon and they have inspired you to make great music, we can use you." There was more to it, but that was the basic tone of the message.

It was a breath of fresh air to have a literate, positive person who didn't make demands of the applicant or forget what matters -- music! I liked their recordings a lot too, but the ad was a big part of why I chose to respond to them. I really think that a friendly ad is the best thing you can do, and then just filter as you go along until you find a good fit.

 

[Session1969]

It may be easier to just find a female singer who is a team player (doesn't mind singing backups as well as lead) and look for a keyboard player as well. It can be tough to find any combo in a single person. Just a thought, though.

 

[Lobster11]

It seems to me that how wide a net you cast in an ad should be exactly commensurate with how flexible your decision criteria are. If you are only willing to consider someone who is female and plays keys and sings, you're not doing anyone any favors by failing to mention these things or by advertising any of them as merely "a plus."

To be honest, I don't have a lot of personal experience with these things, but I've been reading complaints about CL ads and auditions in this forum for years. The two conclusions I've come to from this are that (1) people responding to ads are just as frustrated as people who place them, and (2) the reason for frustration on both sides almost always involves a mismatch between what people say they are looking for and what they actually want.

 

[jeffbrown]

It may be easier to just find a female singer who is a team player (doesn't mind singing backups as well as lead) and look for a keyboard player as well. It can be tough to find any combo in a single person. Just a thought, though.

Well, you may very well be correct, but we're a quartet now, five people is plenty, and we feel six is definitely more than what we're comfortable with. I actually had to lobby fairly hard to add the f/keys, but I sold it by the fact that it would, indeed, give us a bigger, more versatile sound. If we don't find THAT person quickly, it will not set us back. We can afford to wait to find the right one. Or not find her at all. Time will tell.

 

[jeffbrown]

It seems to me that how wide a net you cast in an ad should be exactly commensurate with how flexible your decision criteria are. If you are only willing to consider someone who is female and plays keys and sings, you're not doing anyone any favors by failing to mention these things or by advertising any of them as merely "a plus."

To be honest, I don't have a lot of personal experience with these things, but I've been reading complaints about CL ads and auditions in this forum for years. The two conclusions I've come to from this are that (1) people responding to ads are just as frustrated as people who place them, and (2) the reason for frustration on both sides almost always involves a mismatch between what people say they are looking for and what they actually want.

I don't add "a plus." I believe I was quite specific, as in a female keyboardist who can sing, and delineated what we expect.

Yes, CL can be very vexing from both sides of the listing. LOL

 

[Rich Emme]

Well, you may very well be correct, but we're a quartet now, five people is plenty, and we feel six is definitely more than what we're comfortable with. I actually had to lobby fairly hard to add the f/keys, but I sold it by the fact that it would, indeed, give us a bigger, more versatile sound. If we don't find THAT person quickly, it will not set us back. We can afford to wait to find the right one. Or not find her at all. Time will tell.

That shouldn't be a problem. Next order of business is firing the guitar player, then you will be back to a quartet.

Why? Its bound to happen. I'm just trying to save you the trouble of writing up another post asking for help on what to do managing the band members. It's the guitar player I tell you, he's been giving you the stink eye for a while now

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

Not cranky, but maybe a tad snarky... you probably didn't mean it that way, but written text often can come off as sounding terse.

Other than that, seems like a straightforward ad to me... wouldn't stop me from replying if I wanted the gig. Definitely sounds like a band I'd like to be in... if you guys needed a mediocre bassist instead of a keyboard player! Good luck in your search.

 

[Krystal Childs]

I'd say more arrogant then cranky. When you place an ad, lord knows who going to come a knocking. Many of times I have place ads for male vocalists, drummers and guitarists and had many show up with no talent at all for anything. Good luck in your search.

 

[jeffbrown]

I'd say more arrogant then cranky. When you place an ad, lord knows who going to come a knocking. Many of times I have place ads for male vocalists, drummers and guitarists and had many show up with no talent at all for anything. Good luck in your search.

Haha. Already had the UNtalented f "singer"s respond the last time. I'm attempting to be businesslike in my approach. Is this what you think of the *final* revision?

 

[gln1955]

I think the final version is good. You avoid sounding either cranky or desperate

 

[modulusman]

Thanks for more suggestions! I've taken them all to heart, and this is the final, final edit :

-----------------------------

Female keyboardist who can sing wanted to diversify our sound.

We are laid back professional adults in other fields *who play for fun*. We've recorded a CD and played open mics to positive reviews, and we take pride in our sound. We are looking to record another CD this spring/summer. We primarily need you to add your keys to the mix, and to sing lead on some songs, backup on others. Mostly R&B, blues, and rock; originals and a few covers - we're open to material you may have, want to cover, and expect you to contribute to songwriting when we collaborate on stuff. You can cover synth/strings/mellotron-type sounds as well as horns, and of course piano, organ. We rehearse about once a month in Manchester, take ideas home, and work on them individually. You have the appropriate gear which can reproduce the sort of sounds listed above and is *gig-capable*, and transportation. Experience a BIG plus. Please, no drama, drugs, divas, or karaoke queens. If this intrigues you, let's talk.

-------------------------------

I think the "play for fun" and "take pride in our sound" comments speak to our attitude. I have tried to pare it down and take out any redundancy. The rest, if time is taken to actually read it, is self-explanatory. If one takes the time....

Play for fun says to me we don't get paid. any decent female keyboard player that sings will not be interested.

 

[Lobster11]

I don't add "a plus." I believe I was quite specific, as in a female keyboardist who can sing, and delineated what we expect.

Yes, CL can be very vexing from both sides of the listing. LOL

I agree that you were very specific, and I think your ad was just right. I was referring to other people's posts about casting a wide net, one of which suggested the "vocals a plus" wording, not yours.