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Too cranky?
- Thread starter jeffbrown
- Start date
The whole first paragraph is just really negative. I'd shy away from saying that stuff first, because it gives off a pretty harsh vibe, no matter what you say next. Maybe leave it to the end, after talking about having fun and playing with chilled people
This is the impression that I got when reading the ad. I also get a little bit of my way or highway vibe from it. There's a keyboard guy in our area that posted an ad with the same tone and we decided to not bother because he sounded tired of the whole thing. I think he even opened with "I'm going to try this one more time" too.
Frustrated? Yes. I should expect it, I guess. After all it IS CL. Seriously, how many people respond without bothering to read the posting?? Quite a few, it seems. Having left out the bit about doing both things, I'm sure I'll get the f vox-only replies. Again. >sigh<
OK, here's the final edit:
-------------------------------------
Female keyboardist/vocalist wanted to diversify our sound.
We are laid back professional adults in other fields *who play for fun*. We've recorded a CD and played open mics to positive reviews, and we take pride in our sound. We are looking to record another CD this spring/summer. We primarily need you to add your keys to the mix, and to sing lead on some songs, backup on others. Mostly R&B, blues, and rock; originals and a few covers - we're open to any material you may have, want to cover, and expect you to contribute to songwriting when we collaborate on stuff. You can cover synth/strings/mellotron-type sounds as well as horns, and of course piano, organ (think B3 w/Leslie patch). We rehearse about once a month in Manchester, take ideas home, and work on them individually. You have the appropriate gear which can reproduce the sort of sounds listed above (PA NOT needed - we have it) and is *gig-capable*, and transportation. Experience a BIG plus. Please, no drama, drugs, divas, or karaoke queens. If this intrigues you, let's talk.
------------------------------------
Thanks, all, for expert advice! Here we go....
OK, here's the final edit:
-------------------------------------
Female keyboardist/vocalist wanted to diversify our sound.
We are laid back professional adults in other fields *who play for fun*. We've recorded a CD and played open mics to positive reviews, and we take pride in our sound. We are looking to record another CD this spring/summer. We primarily need you to add your keys to the mix, and to sing lead on some songs, backup on others. Mostly R&B, blues, and rock; originals and a few covers - we're open to any material you may have, want to cover, and expect you to contribute to songwriting when we collaborate on stuff. You can cover synth/strings/mellotron-type sounds as well as horns, and of course piano, organ (think B3 w/Leslie patch). We rehearse about once a month in Manchester, take ideas home, and work on them individually. You have the appropriate gear which can reproduce the sort of sounds listed above (PA NOT needed - we have it) and is *gig-capable*, and transportation. Experience a BIG plus. Please, no drama, drugs, divas, or karaoke queens. If this intrigues you, let's talk.
------------------------------------
Thanks, all, for expert advice! Here we go....
I bet you'll still get 60% of applicants who are clearly in no way suited for the spot. Joys of CL. Good luck.
I think you could trim the rant down by 50%. Listen, I sympathize. I have the opposite problem... guys making noises like they want to gig, but really just want to jam and rehearse.
So last time, I went whimsical. I got a great hit from two fantastic singer-songwriters working as a duo. I'm now their bassist to make it a trio. They told me what got their attention was my ad merely said, "If a tree falls in the forest..." You had to click in to see what I was about.
Anyway, direct is good, rants are not. My advice is to just say what you need to say one time and be done with it. Don't hammer on it repeatedly. No one wants to be in a band with folks like that.
So last time, I went whimsical. I got a great hit from two fantastic singer-songwriters working as a duo. I'm now their bassist to make it a trio. They told me what got their attention was my ad merely said, "If a tree falls in the forest..." You had to click in to see what I was about.
Anyway, direct is good, rants are not. My advice is to just say what you need to say one time and be done with it. Don't hammer on it repeatedly. No one wants to be in a band with folks like that.
SirMjac28
Patiently Waiting For The Next British Invasion
in frustration we once put up a listing like the original one in this thread. it didn't make any difference - we still heard from tons of people who weren't in any way what we were looking for who made it clear that we were in no way what they were looking for. and i suspect we scared off the most likely candidates.
nice revision, and good luck on finding your keyboard player.
nice revision, and good luck on finding your keyboard player.
Not cranky! Love the edits, I'd say you are up front with what you want, the bands realistic goals, and your minimum requirements. Even your first version wasn't too cranky, just a little overcooked IMO. Keep us posted on the search!
I only thought the ok let's try again was bad. If you can't read that and not take offense, then you shouldn't be playing in a band with anyone at all. You're doing yourself a favor with an ad like that. Specific. No bs. To the point. Great ad!
I read keyboardist/vocalist as an either or deal. Specify lead vocal capable keyboard player so you can get cranky with the singers that still apply. Good luck, such musicians are not short of gigs.
The original was fine. It was your opinion of where you're at and what you're looking for. If someone took offense maybe they didn't want it bad enough. Things are so different today from 20 years ago. The ad would have been typical back then. A little edgy, but honest. Who knows maybe someone who's tired of flakes will get your message and respond.
LOL, it takes all kinds. The internet is a many splendored place, and someone will always pop up to take every imaginable (and unimaginable) position. The original was not "fine" it was doomed for failure (sorry), and probably would have resulted in an even crankier and more desperate ad later on.
I don't think any competent lady keyboardist would ever answer that original ad. The most recent update is a lot better but still has room for improvement. You're a hobby band, in a small market in NH somewhere, and have only played open mics so far yet have been around long enough to record a cd. In any such ad, you want to be as inviting as possible, but especially with those factors working against you, you need to figure out your selling points and focus on those. The current version is still too emphatic about things that you don't need to be emphatic about. Like the PA. Just say, "we have a PA you can play through at practice, but you should have your own amp for shows". And saying "B3 with leslie" after organ is redundant. You already specified the styles you play, no one is going to to think you mean cathedral organ or 80s DX7 synth organ sounds. And also talking about material, the way it's worded makes it sound like she can just name off any song that comes to mind and you will play it. Unless that's actually what you mean, I would come up with something that says more "feel free to make suggestions for new covers, and bring your own originals" than "please play with us and we'll do anything you want!". And I never really understood the compulsion to state "we're not trying to make it". That goes for 98% of bands, and it's silly to begin with, because if Warner Bros came to you and said "we want to give you a million dollars to record an album and do a tour and become rock stars", who is really going to turn them down? So unless you're actively trying to NOT make it (which maybe you are judging by the original ad), just leave that out, it doesn't add anything. And "who play for fun" doesn't need to be separated out like that, it doesn't come off as natural. Beatings will continue until morale improves kind of thing.
Just remember, the goal at this stage is to get as many fish on the line as possible and get them into the boat. You can always choose whether or not to throw them back after that. That's just part of the process. I would frankly start over from scratch, and try to be as neutral as possible and put WAY more focus on getting someone to want to respond to your ad, rather than weeding out people that do. If you write an inviting and intriguing ad and get 100 responses and 80 of them are crap, guess what, that means you just got 20 promising leads. And is it really so hard to write 80 "Sorry, not what we're looking for but good luck in your search" emails?
I don't think any competent lady keyboardist would ever answer that original ad. The most recent update is a lot better but still has room for improvement. You're a hobby band, in a small market in NH somewhere, and have only played open mics so far yet have been around long enough to record a cd. In any such ad, you want to be as inviting as possible, but especially with those factors working against you, you need to figure out your selling points and focus on those. The current version is still too emphatic about things that you don't need to be emphatic about. Like the PA. Just say, "we have a PA you can play through at practice, but you should have your own amp for shows". And saying "B3 with leslie" after organ is redundant. You already specified the styles you play, no one is going to to think you mean cathedral organ or 80s DX7 synth organ sounds. And also talking about material, the way it's worded makes it sound like she can just name off any song that comes to mind and you will play it. Unless that's actually what you mean, I would come up with something that says more "feel free to make suggestions for new covers, and bring your own originals" than "please play with us and we'll do anything you want!". And I never really understood the compulsion to state "we're not trying to make it". That goes for 98% of bands, and it's silly to begin with, because if Warner Bros came to you and said "we want to give you a million dollars to record an album and do a tour and become rock stars", who is really going to turn them down? So unless you're actively trying to NOT make it (which maybe you are judging by the original ad), just leave that out, it doesn't add anything. And "who play for fun" doesn't need to be separated out like that, it doesn't come off as natural. Beatings will continue until morale improves kind of thing.
Just remember, the goal at this stage is to get as many fish on the line as possible and get them into the boat. You can always choose whether or not to throw them back after that. That's just part of the process. I would frankly start over from scratch, and try to be as neutral as possible and put WAY more focus on getting someone to want to respond to your ad, rather than weeding out people that do. If you write an inviting and intriguing ad and get 100 responses and 80 of them are crap, guess what, that means you just got 20 promising leads. And is it really so hard to write 80 "Sorry, not what we're looking for but good luck in your search" emails?
Yeah, she's not too busy these day's maybe you can get her once a month, and I am sure she does not even need to practice. All you got to do is show her what songs you want to jam and she will be able to do it right then and there and record a CD right on the spot. Of course with Cristie McVie you guys might end up really famous and a lot more busy then once a month..
I thought the original was not too bad, but it's better with some of the crankiness cut back.
The fact is, I suspect you're going to have a hard time filling this slot. There are just not a lot of competent keys players who think of themselves as band members. I was just talking about this with my cousin over Easter, who plays piano in church and gives lessons. She has no interest in playing on a worship team with other musicians, because she knows she would have to limit her playing to leave space for them, and she likes playing all 88 keys with fills and flourishes. When a keys player thinks about developing their chops, that's what they think about. So the only keyboardists who ARE looking for a role in a band will be the ones with less chops and ambition. Requiring that the person be female, a competent singer, and have pro gear (or even know what a Leslie with a B3 patch is) will limit the pool still further.
If you don't find someone, I would suggest you think about recruiting a female backup singer who is willing to learn some keys. There was one on the NH CL a little while ago, though I think she's a bit far from you, Peterborough or somewhere. Someone else in the band may need to provide her with a keyboard (if you're recording, I'm going to guess someone has one lying around). That may be more likely to get you to your goal over the long run.
The fact is, I suspect you're going to have a hard time filling this slot. There are just not a lot of competent keys players who think of themselves as band members. I was just talking about this with my cousin over Easter, who plays piano in church and gives lessons. She has no interest in playing on a worship team with other musicians, because she knows she would have to limit her playing to leave space for them, and she likes playing all 88 keys with fills and flourishes. When a keys player thinks about developing their chops, that's what they think about. So the only keyboardists who ARE looking for a role in a band will be the ones with less chops and ambition. Requiring that the person be female, a competent singer, and have pro gear (or even know what a Leslie with a B3 patch is) will limit the pool still further.
If you don't find someone, I would suggest you think about recruiting a female backup singer who is willing to learn some keys. There was one on the NH CL a little while ago, though I think she's a bit far from you, Peterborough or somewhere. Someone else in the band may need to provide her with a keyboard (if you're recording, I'm going to guess someone has one lying around). That may be more likely to get you to your goal over the long run.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Nothing wrong with honesty, but less ranting. Take out the "hobby" and list frequency of gigging if you want. No one seriously looking for a music career is shopping CL.
Also, what you are looking for is the holy grail. People like that have paying gig offers coming out their ears and other orifices.
Also, what you are looking for is the holy grail. People like that have paying gig offers coming out their ears and other orifices.
Here's the thing about writing.
People read words through their own mental filter and they assume various spoken tones and often mentally magnify them until the impression received is way different than intended.
The way to prevent this from happening is to keep things short and to the point. Remove all color words, humor, exaggeration, irony, sarcasm and phrases.
For example: "SPOILER ALERT" Such phrases are not contributing to your finding a female singer/keyboardist. You are not a movie review and an ad is not a good place for creative writing unless the ad itself is a joke.
You are trying to convey a simple message, not your personality. If you try to convey your personality, half of the people will get it wrong and assume you are something you are not. Look at your responses here so far. Some people think you are arrogant, some think you are angry... Whether right or wrong, it's irrelevant to you finding a bandmate. Let them discover your personality, attitude and tone of voice at the audition or in a phone call.
Keep the ad very simple and only list the negative disqualifiers if they are very important.
People read words through their own mental filter and they assume various spoken tones and often mentally magnify them until the impression received is way different than intended.
The way to prevent this from happening is to keep things short and to the point. Remove all color words, humor, exaggeration, irony, sarcasm and phrases.
For example: "SPOILER ALERT" Such phrases are not contributing to your finding a female singer/keyboardist. You are not a movie review and an ad is not a good place for creative writing unless the ad itself is a joke.
You are trying to convey a simple message, not your personality. If you try to convey your personality, half of the people will get it wrong and assume you are something you are not. Look at your responses here so far. Some people think you are arrogant, some think you are angry... Whether right or wrong, it's irrelevant to you finding a bandmate. Let them discover your personality, attitude and tone of voice at the audition or in a phone call.
Keep the ad very simple and only list the negative disqualifiers if they are very important.
