Too hard to please?

[Bflat]

Not trying to be funny, but are you happy with your cars, wives, houses,life in general?????

 

[HolmeBass]

Having read the posts, I see a common trend with the OP as well as other members; to recommend various flavors of this vs that, even though OP expressed how pleased he was with hearing his bass through a large sidefill.

I have been very picky about what I have heard from various amps and cabs, and have not really liked many of them. At one point I even had a completely DIY, actively crossed over but passive "mini PA" as backline. A really heavy duty, dedicated 15" subwoofer and a 15" + 6" + 1" cab on top. Powered by a 2x600W LabGruppen amp.

Very, very nice and accurate sound, better than the "Fearless and friends" designs, and being almost flat to the low 30s... However, in spite of approx 8 cuft of total cabinet volume and 1.2 kW, it was not really loud. Ok for rock, but then it was sweating.
Total weight might have exceeded 200 lbs, and it was not scaleable.

After some consideration, I replaced it with an Ampeg SVT-410HLF. Similar heft and good extention, but less accurate and flexible. Still happy with my decision.

So @LHbassist , my recommendation is that you try a two way, bi amped rig. Find a good, powered 115 or 118. Cross over around 80-90 Hz. On top of that, I would place either an active 15" or 12" PA cab (Yamaha or QSC, perhaps) or an EBS ProLine 210.
The EBS is the only cab that I have tried, that uses a really nice HF driver, in this case from Selenium, I think. That rig will be loud, relatively light and give a good and linear representation of you and your instrument.

The other suggestions (IEM aside) will probably just introduce you to yet another flavor of "this" or "that".

Good luck.

This suggestion is also just another flavor.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with providing for consideration whatever solution a person has actually tried that has worked for them.

In fact, suggesting something one has not personally tried could easily be construed as a much less useful offering.

And if an SVT-410 HLF works for you, then that is proof that this is all just a series of opinions, including your contribution. I have played through that cab backline and really disliked it.

 

[ihixulu]

Maybe you're not meant to be satisfied?

 

[Mingo Sanders]

Too hard to please?


do you know my X-wives ..??

Only the even-numbered ones.

 

[AlexanderB]

This suggestion is also just another flavor.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with providing for consideration whatever solution a person has actually tried that has worked for them.

In fact, suggesting something one has not personally tried could easily be construed as a much less useful offering.

And if an SVT-410 HLF works for you, then that is proof that this is all just a series of opinions, including your contribution. I have played through that cab backline and really disliked it.

There is to my knowledge no other suggestion that includes bi-amping, multi way speakers that are designed to reproduce ALL musical instruments PLUS vocals with minimal coloration, even response and controlled dispersion. If so, please show me!
That is also the only suggestion that will emulate the experience of a high grade side fill, hardly something an Acoustic, Ampeg, Fender or Carvin is capable of.

The above are not opinions.

As for the SVT-410HLF, well like I said, it is a compromise, but it goes fairly deep, is relatively flat (compared to many cabs!), it will get LOUD and articulate with the proper amp, and it is robust and reliable. The weakest spot is the tweeter, but I am considering a Selenium transplant...

 

[MultiScaleMale]

My favorite "stadium" sound in a small package at reasonable volume came from an Ampeg PF50t into a Boom Bass Cab 1215.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I used to have a similar dissatisfaction with not being able to get a clean low end without speakers farting out, distorting, etc. I bought a lot of different stuff to try and nothing ever did it for me. What I didn’t realize at this time was that having the bass EQ knob on full on my active EQ Bass was not the best idea. I thought it sounded good like that, so I blamed my amps/cabinets. Once I figured out that I don’t have to have the bass boosted like that a lot of cabinets and amps started to sound good for me. I also started using a Broughton HPF, which helped too.

I will say that it took me a while to “accept” the sound of my rig without the bass boosted like crazy. Bass boost is like an addiction, hard to quit cold turkey.

The ‘Less is More’ concept.

 

[LHbassist]

Here's my rig from last weekend. Carvin BX1500, Epifani UL-112 and a Schroeder 800 watt 15L. It's on my folds-flat- Costco cart, the best gear gift I've ever received. I nearly always use it to isolate the rig from the floor, and raise it to more audible height. No problems with audibility at all. I was also going direct, and there were subs. I really dislike FOH subwoofers. Part of the reasons for that, are that the sound people today, seem to believe that the kick drum should be louder, and deeper than any other low frequency instrument onstage. After some sorting out, the mix was pretty good. This is a casino in Reno, Nevada. The sound guys, show up when you start, do some things for your setup- then LEAVE.... and saunter in once during the five hour night. Yes, the rig sounds good. But there IS distortion, even when I set the input gain, and drive either low, or off. I even tried using the compressor- but it's too sensitive to actually use.

 

[10cc]

You might just need to work on your eq and volume.

 

[10cc]

Or technique

 

[10cc]

Been though the gear swap out too. Been doing that for decades. I'm 68 and been playing bass since I was 12. So nowadays trying to lighten the load and the perfect sound (elusive for sure).

Right now my gig rig is a Berg B|Amp into two Schroeder cabs, One is a 12-12 L (Dual 12 Neos sealed, with one in a corner load), and a 12 PL (Single 12 Neo). Smokes anything I've had before. Small foot print, light weight, powerful, and can handle anything I do.

(BTW pretty loud band: dual guitars, keys, drums with sticks, and lead singer w/t trumpet and percussion. The lead guitar uses dual Mesa Lone Stars each with ext. cabs - 8 twelves on the stage.)

The Berg head just replaced a Genzler MG800 on that same Schroeder rig, so now the Genzler is in the rehearsal studio with an EPI 3-10 UL cab (with the new Epafani drivers in it).

The Genzler had replaced a Demeter HBP1 Preamp and Crown XLS1500 set up. Still have that too, in mothballs. Powerful, great sound, but the Pre / Amp set up just more to lug around.

Also hanging onto a GK-MB500 that was an extra rehearsal rig with a Carvin dual 10 cab that has new B&C tens in it. Nice to have just for a grab and go jam session at some other studio.

Right now I'm gassing for a Berg HDN212 cab. Maybe this coming year.

But look into Bergantino. Some of the best bass gear on the market.
View attachment 3641005

Great bass

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Great bass

Thanks....

 

[LHbassist]

I always carry an in-ear setup with me, for the possibility of encountering that situation. I'm totally o.k. with it- but the Avioms commonly used- do not have individual channel EQ, which forces me to keep the typical two assigned drum channels at a stupid low volume..because of the ridiculously over amped kick drum. I've also used bass shaker platforms. I even made one. The funny thing, after standing on one all night, it actually feels like you ran a couple of miles- it'll make your feet tired! In the situation last weekend, I'm sure I could have brought less, and a personal mixer- and just blended the in-ear, and live ambient sound. I might try that soon. I still want a light power amp... AH THE QUEST, perhaps, that is part of all of this- in search of the lost chord, the Holy Grail...

 

[HolmeBass]

There is to my knowledge no other suggestion that includes bi-amping, multi way speakers that are designed to reproduce ALL musical instruments PLUS vocals with minimal coloration, even response and controlled dispersion. If so, please show me!
That is also the only suggestion that will emulate the experience of a high grade side fill, hardly something an Acoustic, Ampeg, Fender or Carvin is capable of.

The above are not opinions.

As for the SVT-410HLF, well like I said, it is a compromise, but it goes fairly deep, is relatively flat (compared to many cabs!), it will get LOUD and articulate with the proper amp, and it is robust and reliable. The weakest spot is the tweeter, but I am considering a Selenium transplant...

There is no requirement that there be bi-amping, and the modern FRFR bass cabinets easily work as PA cabinets. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean others have not found them suitable, and people do use them for keyboards and as PA speakers. They are a viable 3-way solution that covers up to about 15kHz.

There are many things I will call the 410 HLF, and flat is not one of them. One of the darkest, muddiest cabinets I have ever played through. Very few mids to speak of. I’d use one for a dedicated reggae gig but that’s about it.

And even beyond those specific considerations, your response is as much of an opinion, and a “flavor”, as anyone else’s. Trying to cop that your response is somehow superior to others, solely because it is singular, while also being unoriginal enough to just say “well, rebuild those side fills as a rig since that is what you liked” is bollocks, and arrogant, in my opinion.

 

[LHbassist]

Ah, there it is, the French knight taunting me in my search for The Holy Grail! lol!
As far as working on my volume, and EQ, and 'technique' goes... really? I'm a performing, working bassist..for 50 years.. I've worked with many rock and blues legends. I hardly think I need any tutorial in these areas. But thanks anyway.

 

[ToneMonkey]

Personally, all my biggest and most costly gear mistakes have come when I decide I must have the ultimate______. Invariably I waste a lot of money searching for it, and none of the items I've purchased in those quests remain with me today.

For me at my age... 63, I just want stuff on the higher end of serviceable. Really good production stuff. partscasters. Upper midrange production acoustics. Money is really no object at this point in my life. I know cheap won't stick with me. It's just not serious enough to satisfy me long term. I also know ultimate is a fool's errand. For me anyway.

 

[Al Kraft]

The sound guys, show up when you start, do some things for your setup- then LEAVE.... and saunter in once during the five hour night. Yes, the rig sounds good. But there IS distortion, even when I set the input gain, and drive either low, or off. I even tried using the compressor- but it's too sensitive to actually use.

Poor/lazy sound techs can ruin a gig faster than anything a musician can do wrong IME. The techs I've worked with over the years have mainly been excellent, and I do not take that for granted. When you're depending on the pro sound folks to be at your level of preparedness and expertise, and they are not, I can't imagine what would be possible from an on-stage rig to overcome that obstacle.

As for the distortion you're hearing, I would say you need to look at gain staging from your bass through effects to the pre-amp and power amp. If you have no overdriven/distortion problems in that chain, then you may not have enough and/or the right cab(s) capability to get "your sound/voicing, at your desired volume".

 

[JimmyM]

There are many things I will call the 410 HLF, and flat is not one of them. One of the darkest, muddiest cabinets I have ever played through. Very few mids to speak of. I’d use one for a dedicated reggae gig but that’s about it.

Old ones most definitely. But ones since about 2010 are lighter and much more middy/trebly through the woofers. They still go ridunkulous low, but if you haven't tried a newer one, especially the Heritage, I think even you would say that it doesn't suck

And even beyond those specific considerations, your response is as much of an opinion, and a “flavor”, as anyone else’s. Trying to cop that your response is somehow superior to others, solely because it is singular, while also being unoriginal enough to just say “well, rebuild those side fills as a rig since that is what you liked” is bollocks, and arrogant, in my opinion.

And yet, not altogether far off the mark if you want that kind of response in a more trad bass cab. Newer ones, at least. I think it's bigger than LH wants to tote, and while I love most Ampeg stuff I stay away from the cabs that go lower than the 810e, but it's pretty darn hi fi for a trad bass cab and has that frequency range of a PA system.

But I think LH's best bet is a properly crossed over 3-way cab with one of those LF neos, an Alpha 6a, and a tweet. A 12/6/tweet wouldn't be prohibitively heavy, I don't think. Certainly isn't going to sound like a massive side fill, but about as good as you could expect for a single cab.

 

[JRA]

IME: "too hard to please" = need more practice.

i offer that as a cat who is fairly picky.

 

[projectapollo]

Have you tried right handed gear? That might do it! Probably a phase thing with the left handedness.