Too hard to please?

[agedhorse]

Vegas, Atlantic City, even Reno venues can be over the top with the rules, wher you can (or can't) be, eat, load in/out, etc. the pay can be good, so are benefits, many tech positions are union, etc.

It's a different world for sure. I used to service some of the casinos and worked fill-in atvone for a bit. Ultimately it's a job with limited advancement.

 

[Omega Monkey]

Now that does not mean that the band doesn't have on-stage monitoring needs in order to give a good performance, but this again is where collaboration carries the day IME.

This is true, but as I like to say, "Monitors are not miracles". Musicians really need to get used to getting by with hearing less than they think they need (with wedges at least). And following the same "cut before boosting" rules used for EQ'ing. But going back to what I said before, if the stage sound is balanced and reasonable, and the monitors are good quality and properly rung out, the musicians should need minimal amounts of things in monitors. Honestly, they should really just be barely hot enough to provide some definition to the musician, over the sound of everything else in the room. If you can walk from the audience to on stage and barely hear a difference (maybe each instrument gets a little louder as you go past it), that's kind of the ideal. The wedges are just so you get some of the direct sound and it tickles your ear the right way, not like it's off in the distance, with the highs rolled way off because you're behind and to the side of the PA.

I mean, I wish people would practice as much restraint with monitors as they do with say, holiday treats. But they're more likely to say no if you ask if they really need that 3rd christmas cookie than if they need 3db more of their own lead guitar that's already the loudest thing on stage besides the cymbals. The point that something is so loud in the wedge that I start taking it out of the mains because it's already too loud at the back of the room is an issue, and under the bounds of physics and with conscientious musicians, that should literally never happen. I have had a guy ask me for more of his lead vocal in the wedge, and I'm 60 feet away at the desk, with the mains off, and I can hear his monitor clear as day. Meanwhile, do you think they were willing to turn DOWN the lead guitar amp on stage? Of course not.

It's all an eco system, and everything has to work together, but it's the sound guy who has the big picture in front of him and has the technology and know how (assuming somebody competent, which, if they aren't, the band torpedo-ing the stage sound is not going to help anyway) to pull everything together.

Anyway, I know I harp on all this stuff all the time, but it's because I keep running into it all the time, even with frankly otherwise really great bands. So if I my comments resonate with some bass player across the country, and it saves some poor sound guy at some random venue some headache and heartache, then it's worth it. Or he tells the band the same thing and the bassist says "oh yeah, I saw someone say that on the intarwebs too, so he's probably right" and everyone falls in line. My JOB is to make you sound good, and I get paid decent money to do that, because I'm not half bad. I'm DEFINITELY not there because I want to hear Wagon Wheel for the 9 millionth time, or Dont Stop Believin for the 10 millionth with the guitar 10 db too loud, or a drummer who only has 2 volumes, loud and "OMG JUST STOP PLAYING ALREADY".

 

[agedhorse]

The best mixes start with a good balance of stage volume. Always!

 

[nostatic]

I play a lot of casinos, both in the showrooms, and the lounges. There is a local casino that has a printed warning in the dressing room. It basically says that musicians playing there are essentially parsley on the plate of the guests, window dressing- this is not a concert venue kinda vibe.

The old joke is a truism - what's the difference between a musician and an entertainer? The entertainer gets paid...

We did a casino gig in Mesquite earlier this year and it was great, but it was their concert hall rather than the lounge so we had a bit more latitude. I've certainly played hundreds of gigs where we were background music at best. And that's...ok. In some cases the players were top notch and we could be a bit more exploratory since we weren't the show per se. Other times, it just just a chore to get through the night. Case in point Friday night. Got a call to sub in a jazz quartet with guys I've played with on and off over the last decade (mostly off recently). I knew it was a "tips and food" gig going in but I hadn't seen these guys in a while and the food there is great. So we play our two sets and turns out no food. Next sub call for that will be a polite decline.

Even though I don't pay the mortgage from my gigging income, I need to draw the line somewhere. Ant Wellington gave me a great algorithm - for any gig ask yourself: is the pay good?; is it a fun hang?; will I grow as a musician? 3 out of 3 a definite yes, 2 out of 3 is probably a yes, 1 out of 3 is probably a no, and 0 out of 3...run screaming.

 

[Zbysek]

Have any of you felt this way about your gear?

No.

What comes to my mind when I am reading your post is "unrealistic expectations". I used to have the same with women... I think I would never get married if I haven't got over it.

 

[Zbysek]

The BEST bass/amp/cab combo in the world will be ruined by a bad room, sound guy or band that doesn't regulate dynamic volume. No rig will overcome these obstacles. The only thing you can do is know your gear well enough to compensate for all of that. Not even rock and roll hall of fame bands can bypass those issues.

+1

 

[LHbassist]

So, as some of you suggest, I'm being vague for six pages? Some quests are probably too personal for others to fathom. Many books have been written about this 'vague' thing. I find it so typical, of some, to simply slam others for things they cannot quite understand themselves. Perhaps 80% of people on here are happy with their bass sounds. If that is true, WHY then, do I see so many 'incredible' 'killer' and' 'amazing' amps, cabinets, and basses for sale on here? Maybe it isn't my vagueness at all. It seems to me many of you reading, even those being a bit snarky, have some of the same issues- or are still searching. Why are you selling a Berg and a Walter Woods? Or, a Glockenlang, or a Fearless cab? Do you like the car you drive? Are you happily married? Is everything just fine? The answer is- it's as good as it can be, but never perfect.
With musicians, we tend to be our own worst critics. I can state outright, that I have some recordings- board recordings, of a week in Wendover, NV., where my bass sounds great. But I distinctly remember being less than satisfied with the particular stage sound in that room. So, there are, as well covered here, many variables that most of us are keenly aware of. My selection of gear, and current ownership thereof, has many parameters. I do not own a van. I am older, and don't want to carry heavy bass cabinets. My construction worker days are over and don't need to impress anyone with Festivus feats of strength! I have several large cabs, and they have sat unused since I developed back issues and Sciatica. So, weight, size and cost all play into this. Amplifier power and impedance are also critical factors. With some of my amps, I cannot take two 4 ohm cabs. Sound is number one.
In familiar rooms, I'll bring a familiar amp that I know sounds good there. I wish all of you- a very HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[chadds]

Distortion, overexcursion and farting? With big powerful rigs? Sounds like you need to turn down.

A good preamp/DI and IEMs might help you hear yourself better without overpowering cabs, not to mention the stage volume.

Sounds to me like it’s hand technique and/or driving the pre too hard and/or excessive eq.
Perhaps you aren’t playing gently enough. Seriously.
Then try dialing all your eq nearly off and subtract treble to add bass subtract bass to add treble.
All of that gear can’t be wrong but you respectfully are the common denominator. It’s possible through touch to sound nearly exactly the same on every rig. It’s possible to sound the same in all but the worst rooms. The secret is touch and not over eq. If you over eq you force the room to deal with what your amp is putting out instead of adjusting the amp to have your bass instrument sound the same in each new environment.

 

[Omega Monkey]

Well, you just spent 500 words giving us everything except better information. So yeah, you're being vague. YOU have to better define what you have now (in terms of not just gear but how you're using it and what results you're getting), and what you are and aren't getting from it and what SPECIFICALLY you're hoping to achieve. You talk about "distortion" but you don't say what type, where it's coming from, or anything that would help us get you better results.

Probably you're just not a great communicator (as you just conflated issues with your description with assuming people are saying there isn't a problem). I'm guessing it won't get solved. I'm 90% sure you just need bigger and/or better cabs or just need to learn how to use you're own stuff better. But you think you already know everything, but again, if that were the case, why are you asking strangers for advice on the internet? The parameters have to be clearly defined otherwise you won't know if you've solved the problem with a given approach. I'm not sure why you're bristling at that.

So if you want to provide said information (or try your best), I'm sure people will do their best to get you the solution you're looking for, but otherwise this thread has probably run its course and you seem to be no further ahead than when you started, unless I missed something. Unless it's really just as simple as saying you just want "more", in which case literally the solution is to just roll with an F ton of cab and amp power (ie probably double what you currently are). There's no free lunch. The guys who post on here about "oh, I play all my gigs with just my single 1x3" cab and a .5w amp" are guys playing with a very leaned out (ie bass shy) tone in situations where they don't need a ton of volume, and/or are thrashing their gear to its limits every moment. There's really no replacement for displacement and you can't fool physics. So if you're just looking for a 30 pound solution that will bathe you in bass, you are never going to find it. And if you have physical issues that prevent you from rolling with much more than that, then you have to accept that.

 

[Omega Monkey]

Here's my dilemma... I've never been totally happy with any of it. All of it disappoints me..usually in the area of distortion, or excess speaker cone travel/ farting. Even with high power amps, with cabinets rated for high power, this phenomena occurs. I have yet to find a single 'stand alone' cabinet that I can use.

I tried lugging around a Mackie M1400 and an SWR Grand Prix, a folded horn 15, and an SWR Triad on top- it was pretty good, but too big, heavy, and still not what I'm looking for.

Ok, reviewing the OP, based on this, either your technique is really poor and you're beating your strings to death, or your band is just insanely loud, or you just need work on how to set your controls on your bass and/or pedals and/or amp. Since you're the one consistent factor, I might suggest that you are doing something wrong. That's why I asked for more information. Because the Mackie/SWR/folded horn 15 rig should slay if you actually play well and dial everything in properly. If I walked into a gig and that was the backline, I would probably get marriage proposals from how good my sound would be. So if you couldn't make it work for you, it's probably NOT the gear. What does that leave? I know that's not what you want to hear, but that's probably the first place you should be looking and if you won't tell us about any of that stuff, we can't help you with any of that stuff.

Anyway, I think I'll unfollow now and maybe check back in 6 months and see if anything's changed or if you got the answers you were looking for. Good luck.

 

[ljazz]

Getting the sound that I was hearing in my head happened when my band made the conscious decision to start playing with less stage volume. I know that won't be the same for everyone.... But for me, it allowed me to start using a lower wattage tube head, and a good 115. I've always loved the tone of my b15, and that has always been my gold standard of tone. However, replicating that with tons of power and cabinets has been impossible. I currently run the Shaw B150 and a Shaw 115.... Playing the B150 in Kevin's shop, I knew it was the tone, but it would not have been enough with a guitar player running a dimed 50 watt tube head into a 412. My guitarist now runs a 18 watt Shaw and a 112.... The B150 and 115 is now perfect...... The tone in my head......

 

[Zbysek]

If that is true, WHY then, do I see so many 'incredible' 'killer' and' 'amazing' amps, cabinets, and basses for sale on here? Why are you selling a Berg and a Walter Woods? Or, a Glockenlang, or a Fearless cab?

I usually sell my stuff because I wanna try something else. I don't want to spend my whole life with just one amp and one cab even if they were perfect. I have no kids with any of my amps/cabs, so I feel no moral obligation to keep them for the rest of their days. No harm done by passing them to somebody else...

Do you like the car you drive? Are you happily married? The answer is- it's as good as it can be, but never perfect.

Nothing will ever be perfect. That's the point I tried to make in my post No. 125.

 

[LHbassist]

Ok, reviewing the OP, based on this, either your technique is really poor and you're beating your strings to death, or your band is just insanely loud, or you just need work on how to set your controls on your bass and/or pedals and/or amp. Since you're the one consistent factor, I might suggest that you are doing something wrong. That's why I asked for more information. Because the Mackie/SWR/folded horn 15 rig should slay if you actually play well and dial everything in properly. If I walked into a gig and that was the backline, I would probably get marriage proposals from how good my sound would be. So if you couldn't make it work for you, it's probably NOT the gear. What does that leave? I know that's not what you want to hear, but that's probably the first place you should be looking and if you won't tell us about any of that stuff, we can't help you with any of that stuff.

Anyway, I think I'll unfollow now and maybe check back in 6 months and see if anything's changed or if you got the answers you were looking for. Good luck.

Actually, All I did, was ask the bass playing community if others experienced what I did. And if maybe I was too hard to please.
I most certainly did not ask for any 'help' especially insulting suppositions that the problem, is me. And yeah, The Mackie/ SWR. folded horn setup killed, many 'celebrity' bass players heard it, and sat in played through it up at the gig I used to do. And yeah, they all loved it. It worked really well for me. The sound of that rig wasn't the issue. The weight of it was.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Just imagine the time you spent on gear and invested that into creating.nothing is ever going to be perfect.

I'll let you think about that for a while



Time is very precious, and scrolling eBay is not the way I wanna go.

 

[Downunderwonder]

. I do not own a van. I am older, and don't want to carry heavy bass cabinets.

it's a start.

 

[Pat C.]

I most certainly did not ask for any 'help'...

To your credit, the question you asked in the OP was:

Have any of you felt this way about your gear?

So you were really just looking to commiserate with others about the search for the holy grail stage sound. Which is fine.

But most of this time in this forum people post looking for answers to a problem, so folks here responded with potential solutions. And since it wasn't totally clear what you wanted/needed, you were charged with the crime of vagueness. But in your defense, you never asked for help, so there was nothing for you to be more specific and concise about.

Now you state:

I do not own a van. I am older, and don't want to carry heavy bass cabinets. My construction worker days are over and don't need to impress anyone with Festivus feats of strength! I have several large cabs, and they have sat unused since I developed back issues and Sciatica. So, weight, size and cost all play into this. Amplifier power and impedance are also critical factors. With some of my amps, I cannot take two 4 ohm cabs. Sound is number one.

That would've been great info to have at the beginning if you were actually asking for help. Which you weren't.

Are you now?

 

[LHbassist]

That would've been great info to have at the beginning if you were actually asking for help. Which you weren't.

Are you now?

Thanks for asking, but the reality is- all I was doing is asking if other people have similar experiences with their sound, for whatever reasons. I did not really ask for help. This is an open forum site, I did not think it was exclusively a help forum. I belong to other forums, automotive, firearms, and Luthier related, as well. We discuss all kinds of stuff, as we do here on TB. We review gear, talk of new things, problems, give our opinions, and relate experiences. All of the comments in response to my OP are welcomed. I find it pretty strange though, that simply posting a topic, and giving one's opinions, sets you up for criticism, and in some cases, ridicule and insult. The one cat offering to return to monitor me.... lol! This, in actuality, doesn't really bother me... I'm a very happy guy. I'm not looking for validation, or anything other than free discussion of all things bass on here. If you knew me outside of TB, you'd know that already. I am incredibly fortunate to be a bassist, and to be able to play music, on the instrument I've loved for 60 years now, and I'll do it until the lights go out. Just how fortunate am I ? THIS is where I'll be playing my New Year's Eve gig. On The M.S. Dixie paddle wheeler, in Lake Tahoe.

Happy New Year everyone!

 

[Al Kraft]

On The M.S. Dixie paddle wheeler, in Lake Tahoe.

Sounds like it will be a fun time...have a great gig and a Happy New Year!

 

[Zbysek]

Just how fortunate am I ? THIS is where I'll be playing my New Year's Eve gig. On The M.S. Dixie paddle wheeler, in Lake Tahoe.

Wow! I love Lake Tahoe. I spent 5 beautiful summer days there in 2009 when I was studying for my bar exam in California. Enjoy the gig...and Happy New Year!

 

[LHbassist]

Thought some of you might like to see what the view from the gig looks like.. I'm subbing for the regular bassist, who is very ill right now. He's a total bass geek, like most of us. This is the rig he leaves on the boat. The BX head is the same as mine, he had an EA I-amp 800 but blew it up. Funny, I think I like this amp better. The top cab is two 8's, bottom, is a 1-12 PL cab. It sounds great. NO issues with distortion, or funny tones. This is "Mister Chicken" as I call it now- prior to the first neck reset. The knobs are Rick style now, too.