Too many myths about boiling guitar strings?

[swafran]

It works. It will remove dirt, and your strings will sound brighter. Not new, but brighter than the dead strings they were. It won't do anything about the fact that your strings are old and have been worn, esp. where they touch the frets, etc. When I put a new set of strings on my main bass, I usually boil the old ones and put them on my backup bass.

 

[Bodeanly]

Call me lazy, but I'd rather spend the 15 bucks on new strings than spend the time removing the old ones, boiling them, waiting for them to cool, putting them back in the bass without twisting the crap out of them, and then cleaning up the effing mess in the effing kitchen.

 

[swafran]

the strings I use cost $50

 

[Bodeanly]

That sucks.

 

[swafran]

No actually they're great, I found it's the $15 ones that suck. And they esp. suck right out of the packet when they're still bright and harsh and unmusical. Good ones sound good from day one as bright strings, and still sound good later as they deaden. Good strings, it's a thing. They're not cheap. Hence the boiling. =)

 

[okcrum]

Boiling is bad; water + metal is not a recipe for longevity.

Soaking in denatured alcohol, however, will let you greatly extend the life of your strings.

Eventually, the metal will get fatigued and the strings will sound dead, but I've kept sets in rotation for YEARS before that happened.

I was wondering when someone would mention this. It seems to be the preferred method these days.

 

[Freekmagnet]

I used to boil my strings to keep that new, out of the pack sound for as long as I could. Then one day, my E string broke on the first song of the first set. I had to play the whole night with no E string. I guess the string rusted inside, weakened and broke.

I never boiled my strings since and I learned to love the sound of dead strings. That was 25 years ago and I never looked back. Now I only like to use completely dead flatwounds.

 

[Honch]

Boiling Guitar Strings a Good Idea?

 

[Murdoc_420]

I used to boil my strings to keep that new, out of the pack sound for as long as I could. Then one day, my E string broke on the first song of the first set. I had to play the whole night with no E string. I guess the string rusted inside, weakened and broke.

I never boiled my strings since and I learned to love the sound of dead strings. That was 25 years ago and I never looked back. Now I only like to use completely dead flatwounds.

Did you actually see rust?

Did you boil that set multiple times?

I know the core of a string is pretty thin comparatively, but if you put a thin piece of wire in water it could take weeks to actually rust. Rust happens on the surface, not all the way through. So for it to rust enough to break it would have to be wet for a LONG time. And most strings are stainless steel, or have a brass core or something... Stainless and brass DON'T rust.

Or did you just break a string and it coincidentally happened after you put it back on?

 

[SodPen]

I boiled my strings every so often when I played rounds. At that time, I was using heavy gauges and I boiled in vinegar, not water. I never observed any sort of pragmatic detrimental effect on the structural integrity of the strings over time. I had a set of Jerry Only Skullbusters on my old Ibanez that I must have kept running for about 5 or 6 years. From a skeptical science viewpoint, however, there are some factors that need to be taken into account. First, there's string gauge. Now, I must admit my ignorance here as I don't know off the top of my head if the core is a different gauge between gauges or just the wraps. This is key to know as the weak link in the string is where there core circles the ball end. Secondly, there is the consideration of what type of bridge you're talking about, specifically, string angle/tension at that point. A gentle incline angle vs a steep incline angle is going to affect things. A secondary "part B" to this is also body design in regards to if the instrument strings through the body or a top-mount bridge. Part C would then logically be nut / headstock design. Again, angles and metal fatigue are factors that play into the equation here. Then you have to consider the composition of the string. Steel? Nickel plated? Did you shell out extra cash to get some string with some type of protective coating? Etc etc. Different metals are going to react to heat differently over time as well as the reaction with exposure to water (or in my case, vinegar), and a protective coating is to some extent going to dufus and limit how much surface area of the actual metal is exposed to the liquid. And last, there's the variable of just plain 'ole man-hours of use, and type of use. Playing with fingers vs a plectrum. Thickness of the plectrum, if applicable. Are you playing 15 minutes a day every other day, or are you gigging four times a week and putting more hours on your strings than a hooker puts on a mattress?

Point is, to discuss this beyond the scope of anecdotal "in my experience" and to actually get into serious science, there are a number of factors that must be taken into account and will influence the end answer greatly. The conversation could be just as in-depth (and geeky!) as discussing how impedance, gain, pedal order, EQ settings, and various cab size combinations at different resistances end up affecting the end tone. I'm not a metallurgist or particularly great at physics or engineering, so I can't speak intelligently to providing an answer... but I can at least identify the depth and scope of what it'll take to arrive at an answer using actual scientific method. There's a lot of data collection to be done and collated.

Edit: I like how the site automatically change my original word XXXXX to "dufus." I respect the intent, but there is a way to use that word that isn't derogatory to those with mental challenges.

 

[Honch]

1) When you boil strings, you do get fresh new-strings sound, but this goes away in a matter of days, and the strings will sound as dead as they were before you boiled them.

What kind of superstition is this? If boiling the strings you remove all the dirt and skin oils and give it a fresh brand-new-string sound, then why would that sound last any less than it would if they were indeed brand new? If all the unwanted dirt is cleaned and the strings aren't rusty, aren't they essentially brand new?

Supposedely so, but in real life, the old strings DO have some dents and deformations at the fret spots. I e the strings gauge is more uneven (say, not a 045 anymore along the length of it strings). These dents and metal fatigue, no boiling, denatured alcohol, isopropanol, ultrasonic cleaning can cure. Ever.

2) Boiling should only be done one or two times. After that, it will be so ineffective it won't be worth it.
What is it that you're taking away from the string and its quality by boiling that it gradually degrades its usefulness?

Water plus metal doesn't mix. Even Stainless Steel. After a while the dents from frets, and so on, will play a greater deal on the impact of tone, or "new" tone. After a while the gauge of the string isn't that great, and has been expanded and retracted too many times. Dead spots can occur as well as other things. I do however, have skipped boling completely and gone totally for ultrasonic cleaning. That is on my headless double ball end strings, which works a charm. Lasts for years. The main reason they last is that that they are round core, and no spaces inside the wrap to collect and hide gunk. No water or boiling, but ultrasonic cleaning inside isopropanol fluid. The same fluid you used to clean cassette tape heads with, if anyone remembers them.

3) Boiling weakens strings and they will break easily.
Is steel that fragile for boiling water to affect its strength in 5 minutes?

Yes, any stress puts on longevity for the actual metal fatigue. Not even boiling. Freezing does too. Now what? Yes, you've heard about cryogenic freezing of strings have you? They lower the temperature and then bring it back up slowly, in a matter of several days to bring out the properties. If it was done too fast, it would break the string, or make it more brittle. From boiling temperature to room temperature is pretty quick and will make all strings a tad brittle, and stress the metal fatigue. Same thing there. It's the speed of the temperature change that matters.

4) Boiling should be considered a desperate measure when you're out of cash. It's not a professional thing to do. You should get a proper set of new strings if you want to get really great sound.
For this to be correct, there must be a real disadvantage about this whole practice of boiling strings. There must be at least one negative impact which the process of boiling has on the strings, because the proof that it does indeed bring back the new-strings sound is abundant.
Any comments?

My experience is that regular boiling with water and mild detergent, is that it has some merit. Especially Stainless Steel strings. The new string zzzing comes back but not for as long as brand new set of strings. While, we - say - can measure some certain brands differences in new string sound, say that one brand lasts several weeks of new string zzing, the same set boiled once, may last for several days, up to a week, but absolutely not more. It all depends. Different brands have all different platings, coatings, alloys, and whatnot, they even have different wraps on top of the inner core wrap, which makes things worse when boiling and the wrap "unravels" from its tight grip. There's no such thing as one rule fits all, like boiling is bad or good for all strings. One can think what happens if you should try to boil ANY coated string, like Elixirs and EXP and whatever. A rubber condom laid along the string heated up... talk about flaking it up... please don't ever try this. I havent' heard any advantages to boiling flatwounds either.

As it is, some brands may fare very well to boiling, while others don't. The risk of experimenting with this can turn out very expensive in the end, much more than you actually save on it. Or really, not brands, but alloys, and platings.

Boiling is a cheapskate thing. A last resort, a quick-and-dirty solution that may save you at the evenings gig. It can risk your intonation and dead spots though. Dead spots can show up where it wasn't heard before as well as intonation issues. But the actual timbre is the new strings zzzzzzzzzinnnnnngggg...only you yourself can make that concession of which priority you should make. Either new string zzzzing at the cost of bad intonation and weak spots, and brittle strings. I feel old and gunky strings will make my playing suffer, and I have a much firmer grip on cleaned, boiled, or - optimally - brand new strings.

With brand new string set, you'll get both.

Instead of boiling, many people have done this instead:

 

[Honch]

Clean it with a clean cloth (soaked with isopropanol) after and prior to each gig, or each time you play, wash your hands, and so on. Will keep you strings longer than any boiling or ultrasonic cleaning. But nevertheless, boiling has some merits, as with all the rest of the everyday things.

You don't laundry your clothes in detergent only in cold water, do you? You have to have some heat in order for the gunk to lose its grip...hot water, 90 degrees (celsius that is) or something like that. Otherwise we could wash our clothes in cold water washing machines. Same with dishes. You just have to use HOT water in order for gunk to let go. Simple as that.

And as with clothes, some fare well with hot water, and some doesn't even can stand hand wash, with cold water. And anything in between. Do they feel, look like brand new clothes again afterwards? Of course not!

Same with strings.

 

[Honch]

This makes me wonder - instead of boiling, has anyone tried putting a set in an ultrasonic cleaner?

Yes, I do. There's numerous threads about it here:

Ultrasonic Cleaner

Among others. Filling a tank up with isopropanol first is waste of money, you should do INDIRECT ultrasonic cleaning. Have a little glass or steel jar filled up with isopropanol and sink the string into it. Put that jar into the WATER filled tank, and let it rip for 10 minutes. Isopropanol (especiall 99 percent clean) directly into the tank, will ignite from the ultrasonic, and may catch fire. One string each, it takes half an hour or so. Do not use the heater function. As I use the cleaner to all other things as well (glasses) I might just as well have a go at strings. Mind you, I can reuse the isopropanol later on, and doesn't have to spill it out down the sink.

Do not use water.

 

[Honch]

, a nice clean string will give you a violin type screetch when you wipe it.

Oh yeah, that "tone" can wake up the dead. That's the clang tone. One of the mysteries of string tone. Try to retune and detune your string, and do the wipe again... same high pitched squeal tone isn't it?

 

[Honch]

The Good, The Bad, and The Boiled
What happens when you place strings into a pot of boiling water? In short, here is a list of some positive things that can happen to the string:

1. If there is oil build-up on the strings, the higher temperature of water will change the viscous of oil. The oil will start to break-up and flow away from the string into the rest of the water.
2. If there salt from your previous sweaty playing on the strings, then the salt will dissolve and become aqueous with the boiling water.
3. If there is any dirt in between windings, there is an opportunity for it to break-up and possibly dissolve.
4. Micro metal shavings from normal fret wear will expand due to high temp and possibly dislodge themselves from windings.
5. Expansion. Overall the high temperature of the water will cause the strings to expand at molecular level. Every metal has a coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE) associated with it. This means the metal expands, or contracts with regards to temperature. In the case of wound strings, the windings will expand as they are made of metal. Anything caught in between the windings will get an opportunity to get squeezed out as the windings expand in the high temperature water.

Of course, there are some down sides to boiling. Here is a list of some bad things that can happen when you boil the strings:

1. Higher temperatures are often used to stress relieve any stresses built up in metal. If the string is exposed to high temperature, there will be changes with in the various stress sites of the string. This will have an effect on tuning and possibly create “dead spots” in the string that deaden the sound.
2. Calcium and mineral deposits from hard tap water can work their way into the inner core of a wound string. To get the best results, use de-ionized water if you are going to boil.
3. Brittle strings. Some strings have been known to become more brittle after boiling them. The process of taking the string to a higher temp (212°F) may have an effect on the string’s elasticity if the alloy quality was marginal to begin with it all.
4. Dirty pan. Obviously you don’t want to use a pan with left over spaghetti sauce still in it. You will end up with string marinara, and your fellow musicians will start calling you meatball. The real issue here is the question of a clean pan still having soap scum and mineral deposits in it. If you use such a pan, the soap and mineral deposits will end up on the strings. As a precaution, using a little bit of alcohol and a paper towel to wipe out the pan would help matters.

Conclusion
There are some merits to boiling strings as well as pitfalls. If you are on a shoestring budget and do not wish to shell out the bucks for new strings on a frequent basis, then boiling might be your calling. Hopefully, we have given you a good number of pros and cons to make the right decision that best fits your needs.

 

[jazzyvee]

I have and it worked wonders.
However, just like boiling, slapping the hell out of them or alcohol soaking, it adresses the issue of dirt but does not help with fatigue.
I didn't have long time access to the ultrasonic bowl anyway, only had it for a few days.

On a sidenote, 100°c is the max temperature you can reach when boiling and it isn't even close to extreme for steel.

Put them in a pressure cooker that's more than 100 degrees C but probably still not at a temperature to do any real damage since the pressure cooker is also made of steel too.

I used to boil my guitar strings as strapped for cash young teenage guitarist and I've never done it since then and never with bass strings. I've just give my used strings to my other half for her to use in the garden for stringing up trailing plants up and along walls. But I might get a set back and try boiling them in the pressure cooker and see of that gets more gunk out works.

 

[Zvonimir]

I'd like to thank everyone for their comments. Lots of useful info in this thread now.

A couple of concerns were put to rest. For example, rust shouldn't be an issue since it takes longer periods of time for it to form. Then, exposure to high temperatures in boiling water is harmless since it takes a lot more heat for steel to deform.

With these concerns out of the way, boiling strings seems to be an excellent way to give new life to old strings. The only remaining (and unchallenged) concern is the fret wear which won't go away of course. But this isn't something boiling was going to address in the first place. What it is supposed to do is dissolve all the dirt and skin oils from the string, and this is something it apparently does very effectively.

My conclusion:

Unless the frets have deformed and bent the stings out of shape causing intonation problems, boiling them is essentially like getting a new set, and it's worth doing it. Especially for the more expensive strings (both flats and rounds).

 

[Stefan Verbeeck]

The only remaining (and unchallenged) concern is the fret wear which won't go away of course.

I noticed that I could bring some life into dead strings simply by putting them on flipped 180° over their axis so that the grooves made by the frets end up on the other side.

 

[togril]

This has been my experience. Also, I switched to flats. They seem to stay cleaner.

This was also my experience. Back when I used Rotosound Roundwounds in the 80's, and they were more expensive to me: I would boil them. They became duller very quickly, also they snapped with a bit more regularity (well, they would snap..period). which may of course have been removing them. I also noticed they would get a dull sheen on them. Easier to use a solvent I think. People used to give a quick swipe on Mennen Deodorant stick back in the day....when deodorant could probably get you high if you ate it. (I think it was the alcohol content).
Anyway - the OP will find out for themselves.

 

[togril]

I noticed that I could bring some life into dead strings simply by putting them on flipped 180° over their axis so that the grooves made by the frets end up on the other side.

Yes - have notice that it works like that for double bass strings, any time I have had to take them off the tuners or bridge - they invariably go on at another axial degree - and sound newer and brighter. So I concur!